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by evilpii
#24139 Recently, I rewatched all three OVA series back to back, and I noticed some rather notable inconsistencies between the different series. Below are lists of some of the issues I had while watching them together as a whole.

OVA 1
  1. In episode 1, the tree Funaho sends a message into space. To whom was that message sent? This is unlikely Ryu-Oh as the Guardians state in episode 2 that they detected Ryoko.

OVA 2
  1. Whatever happened to Ryu-Oh? She was planted in the core unit in "Night Before the Carnival", but she is never seen again in the entire series.
  2. In episode 4, Clay chooses to ignore his given mission to pursue Washu. What was his original mission?
  3. Moreover, D3 states that someone had already been assigned to retrieve Washu. Who was that? Wouldn't that character interfere with Clay and Zero?
  4. In episode 6, Empress Funaho complains that Yosho had not sent word in 700 years. Does this not contradict Seto's statements in series 3 about a secret communique?
  5. Washu says she will not create another Ryoko, or Ryo-Ohki-like warship by extension, and will not help anyone to do so. Doesn't this rule out Fuku's creation in GXP?
  6. Azusa had an issue with Yosho about him having a child with a Terran, but in series 3, he is married to Airi, who moreover states that she is Masaki Kiyone's mother. Is this not a contradiction?
  7. In "Here Comes Jurai, Part 2", D3 goes to wipe Clay and Zero's memories. Why is this, considering that in series 3, Washu is fully realized as a goddess and fully aware of Tokimi's existence? Would knowledge of Tokimi's location already be known to her?

OVA 3
  1. In episode 1, how can Ryo-Ohki get lost? As Washu said, she is the computer unit of a battleship. Also in series 2, Ryo-Ohki is shown able to levitate. Couldn't she simply float up to see where she is, or go into space and find her home by herself?
  2. Rea is introduced as having existed in Tenchi's life when he was a boy. If so, why is she not mentioned or seen in the series 1 flashbacks, considering her place in series 3 and even, debatably, Geminar?
  3. In episode 2, Noike is introduced as the adoptive daughter of Seto. Why would Seto adopt a fairly unremarkable GP officer, considering all the scheming that went into her proposed adoption of Mashisu? Even if she was privy to Noike's contact with Clay, Zed, and Kagato-F(emale), why install her into the Masaki household on Earth? She seems far more of a threat than a boon.
  4. Why does Nobuyuki try to kiss passionately his own daughter? That seems very inappropriate, considering he is soon to marry Rea.
  5. Moreover, why does Airi try to kiss passionately her grandson, with her husband standing just a few meters away? Again, wasn't Katsuhito's wife Terran, spurring the issue with Azusa?
  6. Why would Ryoko, or even Kagato, be intimated by Airi or Seto? Ryoko is notorious for sacking and crushing Jurai's defenses, and Kagato is known as the "Ruins Buster" and is eternally wanted by the GP. I have a hard time seeing either cowering in fear of a single Juraian woman.
  7. If so many children of Juraian lineage live on and leave Earth, why is Earth still regarded as "developing" or "protected"?
  8. In episode 3, Noike discusses the generations of Juraian trees and states that Ryu-Oh fought with Ryo-Ohki 700 years ago. Why wasn't this spoken of in series 1, when Ayeka was introduced? Wasn't Yosho the one to leave to fight Ryoko? Also, Noike states that the only first generation tree was Azusa's Kirito, but wasn't Funaho a first generation tree? Hence, Tenchiken is a first generation master key that can control Ryu-Oh in series 1 episodes 2 and 5?
  9. Moreover, why does Noike have Kyoko, a top-secret upgraded third generation tree? Presumably, this would be because of Seto, which emphasizes the question of why Seto would be interested in a no-name GP officer.
  10. Why is the Kuramitsu family so ready to go to war over Mihoshi? Admittedly, if Kuramitsu Mikami is so close to Seto, couldn't a more diplomatic solution be given? Also, why is Marshall Kuramitsu Minami cackling like a lunatic and not listening to reason?
  11. Why does no one notice that Noike is purposefully monopolizing Tenchi, to the point that she seemingly has poisoned him for the purpose of ingratiating herself to him and the household?
  12. What happened to Mihoshi all those years go to make Misao so protective of her?
  13. In episode 4, Seto says that Yosho sent word after Ayeka and Sasami had left to find him. Couldn't she have contacted Ryu-Oh or the Guardians while the girls were in statis to turn them around?
  14. If Seto could have gotten word from Yosho, couldn't Ayeka and Sasami have sent word back after Yosho revealed himself? Why did it take until Azusa arrived unannounced before Jurai came to investigate? Moreover, if Earth was already well-known, wouldn't it be the first place to look?
  15. In episode 5, only Sasami's combat is shown. Why not any of the others?
  16. How is Ryo-Ohki both combating the Chobimaru and at the party aboard Tsunami?
  17. Since Tsunami is there, why is she not stopping the combat? While this does take dramatic emphasis off Misao and Mashisu, it seems unnecessary.
  18. In episode 6, Washu reveals her goddess aspect from the two gems remaining in Tenchiken. Why hasn't she manifested this sooner, say when Kagato took her prisoner or when Shunga imploded into a black hole?
  19. Who is the figure of light talking to Tenchi? While it seems to be Tenchi's character design, his identity is not explicitly noted.
  20. Similarly, why does Misaki have the Counteractor aspect? She has never demonstrated any ability or predilection of this persona or power before. Even then, how is "other Tenchi" able to passify and remove her?
  21. At the end of the episode, Noike and Fuku appear in the past, changing Mihoshi's note as Zed had. While this does ensure the same sequence of events up to episode 5, Noike mentions that this will ensure that Fuku will meet Seina. How so?
  22. In the +1 special, Marshall Kuramitsu Minami is deposed by his sister, Kuramitsu Mikami. While I don't disagree that he should be punished for his actions, how does she have the power to override him? Her place in the political structure is not explained in this series.
  23. While Nobuyuki mentioned that he found Masaki Kiyone's (and Airi's) script was in bad taste, why did he, among others, proceed with her black comedy? Considering Tenchi's temperment, that seemed in very poor taste, as evidenced by Tenchi's own reaction.
  24. Why are Rea and Noike the only ones allowed to console Tenchi? One would think that Ryoko or Nobuyuki might be better suited for the task, particularly as Ryoko watched over him when his mother died. Also, admittedly, it seems more Nobuyuki's place as father to explain this to his son.
  25. Washu states that just as Sasami could beat Ayeka to Tenchi, Ryo-Ohki could beat Ryoko to him as well. While this might be in jest, that is off-color, even for Washu.
  26. According to Washu's theory, Noike is a fragment personality from Kagato-F, who was picked up by Noike's "mother". Clay later sealed the Kagato-F side away, and Zed found and used her to spy on the household throughout series 3. Tokimi allows the other persona to speak, and Washu removes the seal, allowing them to fuse into one entity, much like Ryoko and Zero. How and when did Clay and Zed accomplish all of this? Wouldn't Clay have mentioned a contingency plan or arrangement with Zed in series 2?

On a personal note, I did not enjoy seeing Ryoko, Ayeka, and even Mihoshi pigeonholed for most of series 2 and 3. Admittedly, Sasami and Washu deserved character development episodes, and even Noike as well. However, I do believe this came at a high cost to three characters who, arguably, are part of the core of Tenchi.
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by For Washuu
#24142 My god you're annoying when you have legitimate questions, Pii. wth2

Here's a couple that I at least had some comments on. (the rest I more or less have to agree with you, I think. Maybe.)
evilpii wrote:Azusa had an issue with Yosho about him having a child with a Terran, but in series 3, he is married to Airi, who moreover states that she is Masaki Kiyone's mother. Is this not a contradiction?

Er... maybe Azusa is refering to an earlier wife?

evilpii wrote:In "Here Comes Jurai, Part 2", D3 goes to wipe Clay and Zero's memories. Why is this, considering that in series 3, Washu is fully realized as a goddess and fully aware of Tokimi's existence? Would knowledge of Tokimi's location already be known to her?

I don't think that's done because of Washuu - I think it's more or less to keep Clay from being a pest again by meddling any further into the Choushin's business. Maybe. >shrug<

evilpii wrote:In episode 1, how can Ryo-Ohki get lost? As Washu said, she is the computer unit of a battleship. Also in series 2, Ryo-Ohki is shown able to levitate. Couldn't she simply float up to see where she is, or go into space and find her home by herself?

I had wondered about that sequence, but I think it's just that she's overcome by the situation and doesn't think really rationally. She's suddenly alone, and like a little kid she doesn't stop to calm down and think rationally. (Well, she is a little kid, you know.) A three-year old has the ability and maybe the knowledge to go to the customer service counter when he gets lost in Wall-Mart... but I doubt he'd think of it.

evilpii wrote:In episode 2, Noike is introduced as the adoptive daughter of Seto. Why would Seto adopt a fairly unremarkable GP officer, considering all the scheming that went into her proposed adoption of Mashisu? Even if she was privy to Noike's contact with Clay, Zed, and Kagato-F(emale), why install her into the Masaki household on Earth? She seems far more of a threat than a boon.

I'd guess it's because she's also adopted. She seems to have a thing for adopting people, and she also has a habit of deciding some things on impulse.

evilpii wrote:Why does Nobuyuki try to kiss passionately his own daughter? That seems very inappropriate, considering he is soon to marry Rea.

He's a tease. He's a perv. He's a bit of a troll.

evilpii wrote:Moreover, why does Airi try to kiss passionately her grandson, with her husband standing just a few meters away?

'Cause he's Tenchi, of course! :D

evilpii wrote:Why would Ryoko, or even Kagato, be intimated by Airi or Seto? Ryoko is notorious for sacking and crushing Jurai's defenses, and Kagato is known as the "Ruins Buster" and is eternally wanted by the GP. I have a hard time seeing either cowering in fear of a single Juraian woman.

I think it's more because of how crazy she is. I mean... Seto is pretty well a nutcase when it comes to either manipulating people or killing pirates. Ryoko was in a somewhat-stable house situation when she reacts to hearing Seto was coming, so that's understandable, but Kagato... hm. I guess even insane, ruins-busting, people-killing, planet-busting organists don't enjoy run-ins with people equally insane? That's what I'd guess.

evilpii wrote:If so many children of Juraian lineage live on and leave Earth, why is Earth still regarded as "developing" or "protected"?

Two reasons: First to give the Juraians some privacy, and secondly because it hasn't made (public) contact with other planets. Again, just my speculation.

evilpii wrote:Noike states that the only first generation tree was Azusa's Kirito, but wasn't Funaho a first generation tree?

Haven't seen that ep. in a while, but are you sure she's not saying that Kirito is the only remaining active first-gen tree ship? (due to Funaho being stuck on Earth now, I mean.)

evilpii wrote:Moreover, why does Noike have Kyoko, a top-secret upgraded third generation tree? Presumably, this would be because of Seto, which emphasizes the question of why Seto would be interested in a no-name GP officer.

Er... more perspective on how haphazard Seto is in her management of people and resources? I dunno.

evilpii wrote:Why is the Kuramitsu family so ready to go to war over Mihoshi? Admittedly, if Kuramitsu Mikami is so close to Seto, couldn't a more diplomatic solution be given? Also, why is Marshall Kuramitsu Minami cackling like a lunatic and not listening to reason?

More speculation on my side here, but I'd bet that just because Mikami and Seto get along doesn't mean that the rest of the two families do. Heck, the Kuramitsu family doesn't agree on practically anything within themself! (well, unless Mitoto is in the room, that is. >_< )

evilpii wrote:Why does no one notice that Noike is purposefully monopolizing Tenchi, to the point that she seemingly has poisoned him for the purpose of ingratiating herself to him and the household?

And here is where every OVA3-hater (not saying you are one) ends up wanting to cut my head off. 'Cause I just don't see it. I really don't see Noike monopolizing at all... I just see someone who's nature is to keep things organized and neat, and nobody in the house puts forth *enough* effort to stop her. (Japanese politeness and all that Bull...er, Red. Red Bull. Yeah.)
Note: no need to reply to this one. I'm probably wrong, but it's a moot point by now. T_T

evilpii wrote:What happened to Mihoshi all those years ago to make Misao so protective of her?

That is the perpetual question...

evilpii wrote:In episode 4, Seto says that Yosho sent word after Ayeka and Sasami had left to find him. Couldn't she have contacted Ryu-Oh or the Guardians while the girls were in stasis to turn them around?

Bets Ayeka's word is law on her ship. Logs' prime directive? "Obey the girl with the whip."

evilpii wrote:If Seto could have gotten word from Yosho, couldn't Ayeka and Sasami have sent word back after Yosho revealed himself? Why did it take until Azusa arrived unannounced before Jurai came to investigate? Moreover, if Earth was already well-known, wouldn't it be the first place to look?

Here I just agree with you.

evilpii wrote:In episode 5, only Sasami's combat is shown. Why not any of the others?

Because we already know everyone else is a badass, but seeing Sasami get down and kick around a GP officer is some awesome news!
(And, speculatively, budget and episode-time constraints.)

evilpii wrote:How is Ryo-Ohki both combating the Chobimaru and at the party aboard Tsunami?

101 crystals. I think the main one, the control crystal, is the one on the Tsunami - that's why she's reacting so much to the combat and why Washuu makes sure to keep her stable. (ie, gives carrot.)

evilpii wrote:Since Tsunami is there, why is she not stopping the combat? While this does take dramatic emphasis off Misao and Mashisu, it seems unnecessary.

Hmm... maybe she wants Misao to confess, as well?

evilpii wrote:In episode 6, Washu reveals her goddess aspect from the two gems remaining in Tenchiken. Why hasn't she manifested this sooner, say when Kagato took her prisoner or when Shunga imploded into a black hole?

I've wondered the same thing, and the best I can figure is that either she wasn't fully aware yet, or that the threat wasn't as ultimate as that of Z. Or both.

evilpii wrote:Who is the figure of light talking to Tenchi? While it seems to be Tenchi's character design, his identity is not explicitly noted.

Generally, fans have considered him to be Tenchi-Kami. (This makes for an odd conundrum, though! Is God-Tenchi is somehow not confined in the human Tenchi? And does that mean that He has been watching all this happen and only comes down to interact with the situation at that one point when human Tenchi is overwhelmed by rising through the 11 dimensions? Curious, indeed!)

evilpii wrote:Similarly, why does Misaki have the Counteractor aspect? She has never demonstrated any ability or predilection of this persona or power before. Even then, how is "other Tenchi" able to pacify and remove her?

AstroNerdBoy has a translation of an unanimated scene from ep. 6 here. It makes a little more sense of what you're asking about. Misaki was always an oddball, and a powerful one at that. :/
As for Tenchi pacifying her, I think it's a Tenchi-Kami thing. I'd even go as far a speculating that it's the first time Tenchi really connects with his godhood.

evilpii wrote:At the end of the episode, Noike and Fuku appear in the past, changing Mihoshi's note as Zed had. While this does ensure the same sequence of events up to episode 5, Noike mentions that this will ensure that Fuku will meet Seina. How so?

Possibly... if it weren't for the Chobimaru incident... the GP wouldn't have bothered to try to recruit Tenchi? I dunno.

evilpii wrote:While Nobuyuki mentioned that he found Masaki Kiyone's (and Airi's) script was in bad taste, why did he, among others, proceed with her black comedy? Considering Tenchi's temperment, that seemed in very poor taste, as evidenced by Tenchi's own reaction.

Dying wife's wishes, I guess. It was her work, her gift, so it'd be pretty disrespectful to her *not* to use it as she asked.

evilpii wrote:Why are Rea and Noike the only ones allowed to console Tenchi? One would think that Ryoko or Nobuyuki might be better suited for the task, particularly as Ryoko watched over him when his mother died. Also, admittedly, it seems more Nobuyuki's place as father to explain this to his son.

I'll reply with my opinion, but only if I get promises from certain people on this board that they won't follow it up at all.

evilpii wrote:Washu states that just as Sasami could beat Ayeka to Tenchi, Ryo-Ohki could beat Ryoko to him as well. While this might be in jest, that is off-color, even for Washu.

It is? (eh. Different perception is different.)

If I've been of any help at all, then I have a favor to call in. If I've just been the opinionated jerk that I usually am, then sorry. It's pretty hard for me to tell the difference when it's this early in the morning. (Oh, lord. When did 10:17 a.m. become "early in the morning"??)
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by chucklocker
#24148 Hooray for reasoned discourse! It has been known to happen in this fandom from time to time! :lol:

Anyway, I generally agree with most of your comments FW (also known to happen from time to time, lol). Some of the points you raised pii, like whatever happened to Ryu-Oh, seem to me to be due simply to the story going in different directions than it was originally intended, which happens frequently enough in other shows. It's certainly annoying to be sure, but its often to be expected in long running series, especially when the creative team turned over as radically as it did after OVA 1. As for what I'll call the "second tier" of your points, those dealing with actual plot discrepancies, I think can best be explained by Mr. Kajishima himself:
K: I had the ideas way back to "Tenchi Muyo! Ryohki" the 1st and I already knew how to end the story when I was directing "Tenchi Muyo! Ryohki" the 2nd. I just don't have the detail about how to connect each images and fragments of the base storyline in my mind. It's just an outline, not very specific.

T: Do you have it now?

K: No. (Laugh). I only know where the goal is, but have no clear idea how to get there. But, I have decided "where" I would or should pass to reach the goal.

T: In other words, you are going to enjoy the "fun" of connecting the images and fragments from now on.

K: Yes. That is right. I will fix or change the detail depends on my chose. But the basic concept of the ending had been made. That will never be changed.

Basically, Kajishima doesn't sweat the little stuff in favor of getting to the end of the story, which is maddening from a fan's perspective, and is largely why nailing down one true listing of what is "canon" is such a uniquely troublesome problem in Tenchi fandom. Finally, the "third tier" of your points, those dealing with the changes made to the characters' personalities, such as Kagato being afraid of Seto, and Ryoko and Ayeka rolling over for Airi, Seto, and Noike, is where most of my frustration comes from. The only thing I can think of is that so much time had passed in real life between OVAs that the characters were simply not the same people in the mind of the writers and show runners as they were back in the 90's. This led to a lot resentment, I think justly so, on the part of fans who had come to know and love every aspect of the characters, and were now seeing them through the eyes of a creator who's interpretations had drifted quite significantly in the intervening years. I won't defend or condemn any of these explanations/excuses (in this post at least, :wink: ), just wanted to throw in my two cents.
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by Nobuyuki
#24154
For Washuu wrote:Here's a couple that I at least had some comments on. (the rest I more or less have to agree with you, I think. Maybe.)
evilpii wrote:Azusa had an issue with Yosho about him having a child with a Terran, but in series 3, he is married to Airi, who moreover states that she is Masaki Kiyone's mother. Is this not a contradiction?

Er... maybe Azusa is refering to an earlier wife?

Such as Funaho's niece, Kasumi. Badmouthing her would set Funaho off. And it looks like it did.

evilpii wrote:In episode 6, Washu reveals her goddess aspect from the two gems remaining in Tenchiken. Why hasn't she manifested this sooner, say when Kagato took her prisoner or when Shunga imploded into a black hole?

I've wondered the same thing, and the best I can figure is that either she wasn't fully aware yet, or that the threat wasn't as ultimate as that of Z. Or both.

Never play an ace when a two will do.

evilpii wrote:Why are Rea and Noike the only ones allowed to console Tenchi? One would think that Ryoko or Nobuyuki might be better suited for the task, particularly as Ryoko watched over him when his mother died. Also, admittedly, it seems more Nobuyuki's place as father to explain this to his son.

I'll reply with my opinion, but only if I get promises from certain people on this board that they won't follow it up at all.

Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!
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by evilpii
#24162
Nobuyuki wrote:
For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:Azusa had an issue with Yosho about him having a child with a Terran, but in series 3, he is married to Airi, who moreover states that she is Masaki Kiyone's mother. Is this not a contradiction?

Er... maybe Azusa is refering to an earlier wife?

Such as Funaho's niece, Kasumi. Badmouthing her would set Funaho off. And it looks like it did.

Who is Kasumi, and where is she mentioned in the three OVA series? In particular, if Yosho had been married to Empress Funaho's niece, would she not have been mentioned in Funaho's scolding of Azusa in series 2 episode 6? After all, he would then be insulting two members of her family (her sister and herself), not just some random Terran woman. Also, this seems a contradiction when Airi is introduced. This is a point to clarify when the OVA series is considered as a whole.

Nobuyuki wrote:
For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:In episode 6, Washu reveals her goddess aspect from the two gems remaining in Tenchiken. Why hasn't she manifested this sooner, say when Kagato took her prisoner or when Shunga imploded into a black hole?

I've wondered the same thing, and the best I can figure is that either she wasn't fully aware yet, or that the threat wasn't as ultimate as that of Z. Or both.

Never play an ace when a two will do.

I could accept that she was not fully aware of herself, though it seems unclear as to when she manifests fully. In this case, when did her power fully manifest?

In the other case where she merely judged the threats not as dire, this causes some problems. If she was fully aware of her power against Kagato or Clay, she could have waved her hand and rectified both situations. More importantly, the episode with Clay aboard Shunga seems far more Washu-centered. Having Tenchi use his Light Hawk Wings to save Ayeka and Mihoshi seems a strange emphasis shift when all three have been pidgeonholed in the bowels of the ship for the entire episode, and all the action has been focused on Washu. Why not have Washu be the savior for her own episode?

Moreover, as a goddess, why would she suffer being sealed in a crystal aboard Soja?

Nobuyuki wrote:
For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:Why are Rea and Noike the only ones allowed to console Tenchi? One would think that Ryoko or Nobuyuki might be better suited for the task, particularly as Ryoko watched over him when his mother died. Also, admittedly, it seems more Nobuyuki's place as father to explain this to his son.

I'll reply with my opinion, but only if I get promises from certain people on this board that they won't follow it up at all.

Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

You can share your opinion if you wish, but not if you do not want to discuss it. The point of a forum is discussion, so asking for a promise "not to follow up" is contrary to that aspect. Please do not misunderstand me. I am not here to ridicule someone else's opinion, but if I do disagree, I will state it alongside my reasons for doing so. I am more interested in the facts and their logical conclusion than angering a fellow forum member.

chucklocker wrote:Some of the points you raised pii, like whatever happened to Ryu-Oh, seem to me to be due simply to the story going in different directions than it was originally intended, which happens frequently enough in other shows. It's certainly annoying to be sure, but its often to be expected in long running series, especially when the creative team turned over as radically as it did after OVA 1.

I can accept that since Hayashi and Hasegawa left the project after the first series. This is more reason I am hyped for the novel translation project. Tenchismile
chucklocker wrote:As for what I'll call the "second tier" of your points, those dealing with actual plot discrepancies, I think can best be explained by Mr. Kajishima himself:
Basically, Kajishima doesn't sweat the little stuff in favor of getting to the end of the story, which is maddening from a fan's perspective, and is largely why nailing down one true listing of what is "canon" is such a uniquely troublesome problem in Tenchi fandom.

If he wants to change events or facts, why not just make another continuity? The story could be tightened up and streamlined into Kajishima's vision in an offshoot, rather than introducing continuity errors into the original series.
chucklocker wrote:Finally, the "third tier" of your points, those dealing with the changes made to the characters' personalities, such as Kagato being afraid of Seto, and Ryoko and Ayeka rolling over for Airi, Seto, and Noike, is where most of my frustration comes from. The only thing I can think of is that so much time had passed in real life between OVAs that the characters were simply not the same people in the mind of the writers and show runners as they were back in the 90's. This led to a lot resentment, I think justly so, on the part of fans who had come to know and love every aspect of the characters, and were now seeing them through the eyes of a creator who's interpretations had drifted quite significantly in the intervening years.

And, this is more reason for a separate continuity. For example, series 1 Ryoko had an image of being fearless and strong, with a warm heart for Tenchi and merciless to those who would threaten him. However, series 2 and 3 paint her differently: full of bluster, but easily intimated by people with a faction of her power. Series 1 Ryoko would not have stood for the events of series 3 episode 2. Likely, she would have drawn her sword and threatened death like she did with Mayuka in Manatsu no Eve. I also cite Ryoko's confrontation with Azusa in Hexagram of Love, where she faced him bluntly, plainly, with no cowardice. Again, it seems better to parition series 2 and 3 into another continuity, where Kajishima can paint his masterpiece without conflicting with the original.

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:In "Here Comes Jurai, Part 2", D3 goes to wipe Clay and Zero's memories. Why is this, considering that in series 3, Washu is fully realized as a goddess and fully aware of Tokimi's existence? Would knowledge of Tokimi's location already be known to her?

I don't think that's done because of Washuu - I think it's more or less to keep Clay from being a pest again by meddling any further into the Choushin's business. Maybe. >shrug<

I was thinking less of Clay and more of Zero. When Ryoko and Zero merge, Ryoko would then know of Tokimi and her location. How would that knowledge interfere, since Washu could likely explain and perhaps pacify Ryoko's concerns?

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:In episode 1, how can Ryo-Ohki get lost? As Washu said, she is the computer unit of a battleship. Also in series 2, Ryo-Ohki is shown able to levitate. Couldn't she simply float up to see where she is, or go into space and find her home by herself?

I had wondered about that sequence, but I think it's just that she's overcome by the situation and doesn't think really rationally. She's suddenly alone, and like a little kid she doesn't stop to calm down and think rationally. (Well, she is a little kid, you know.) A three-year old has the ability and maybe the knowledge to go to the customer service counter when he gets lost in Wall-Mart... but I doubt he'd think of it.

After chatting with some fellows, there are several reasons why this would not work. First, as stated before, she is a computer unit of a battleship. She has seen combat more frightening than an unfamiliar wilderness, so her getting overcome is unlikely. Second, she is mindlinked to both Ryoko and Washu. Ryoko could have sent a telepathic message to Ryo-Ohki showing her the way, rather than going herself. Equally, so could Washu. Third, Ryo-Ohki multitasks heavily, as evidenced by the battle with Chobimaru. She can isolate the child side of herself in that situation while the battleship side of herself is in combat, and is drunk. If Ryo-Ohki let the drunkenness interfere with the battle, she could kill Misao and Mashisu with one of those many precise attacks carving graffiti into the other ship's hull. Why can she not isolate her childish fears and do what needs to be done to leave the woods?

Moreover, I think there is an underlying question here. Ryo-Ohki indeed has the form of a child, but does she have the mind of a child, or an animal, or a computer unit? She has aspects of all three, but which is actually her, if any?

Furthermore, Ryoko and Washu share a mindlink, where Washu knows about Ryoko's deep desires for Tenchi without any effort. In fact, Washu compares this link to the one between Ryoko and Ryo-Ohki in series 1 episode 6. Also, Ryoko is seen summoning Ryo-Ohki from a distance of miles in series 1 episode 2. However, in series 2 episode 3, Washu needs some elaborate device to read Ryo-Ohki's mind. Why, particularly as series 3 episode 1 has Ryoko directly upload the way home into Ryo-Ohki's head? Even then, why does Ryoko have to be right next to Ryo-Ohki to do that?

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:In episode 2, Noike is introduced as the adoptive daughter of Seto. Why would Seto adopt a fairly unremarkable GP officer, considering all the scheming that went into her proposed adoption of Mashisu? Even if she was privy to Noike's contact with Clay, Zed, and Kagato-F(emale), why install her into the Masaki household on Earth? She seems far more of a threat than a boon.

I'd guess it's because she's also adopted. She seems to have a thing for adopting people, and she also has a habit of deciding some things on impulse.

Where is Seto's adoption mentioned in the three OVA series? As for adoptions, she only adopts Noike and offers to adopt Mashisu in series 3. Mashisu at least has reason to be adopted, to marry Misao. What is Noike's reason?

As far as deciding matters on impulse, that seems a poor trait for someone who is supposedly running Jurai by proxy, as stated by Ayeka in series 3 episode 2. After all, a snap decision could easily land the Juraian people into conflict with any of the other political bodies in the universe. See A Song of Ice and Fire (i.e. Game of Thrones) or real world history for how bad this can become.

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:Why would Ryoko, or even Kagato, be intimated by Airi or Seto? Ryoko is notorious for sacking and crushing Jurai's defenses, and Kagato is known as the "Ruins Buster" and is eternally wanted by the GP. I have a hard time seeing either cowering in fear of a single Juraian woman.

I think it's more because of how crazy she is. I mean... Seto is pretty well a nutcase when it comes to either manipulating people or killing pirates. Ryoko was in a somewhat-stable house situation when she reacts to hearing Seto was coming, so that's understandable, but Kagato... hm. I guess even insane, ruins-busting, people-killing, planet-busting organists don't enjoy run-ins with people equally insane? That's what I'd guess.

Insanity is less the point, but rather power. Where in the three OVA series has Seto shown herself to conquer, crush, and destroy entire cultures for her whims? Kagato is first shown plowing through a GP blockade effortlessly. Ryoko is first shown battling Yosho in flashbacks and destroying Tenchi's high school. Seto has not been shown anywhere close to this, so why would either be worried about her?

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:Moreover, why does Noike have Kyoko, a top-secret upgraded third generation tree? Presumably, this would be because of Seto, which emphasizes the question of why Seto would be interested in a no-name GP officer.

Er... more perspective on how haphazard Seto is in her management of people and resources? I dunno.

Mismanagement would be more reason to question why and how Seto could be secretly running Jurai.

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:Why does Nobuyuki try to kiss passionately his own daughter? That seems very inappropriate, considering he is soon to marry Rea.

He's a tease. He's a perv. He's a bit of a troll.

evilpii wrote:Moreover, why does Airi try to kiss passionately her grandson, with her husband standing just a few meters away?

'Cause he's Tenchi, of course! :D

Nobuyuki knows his first wife is dead and should know his daughter's face well enough. Moreover, as someone who is agonizing over how to explain to his son about his pending marriage, it seems ridiculous for him to pervert himself over his daughter in front of his son.

As for your response for Airi trying to kiss Tenchi, how does him being "Tenchi" make it acceptable for her to act in that way? Again, her husband is standing right there. Even in a close family, that is not acceptable.

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:If so many children of Juraian lineage live on and leave Earth, why is Earth still regarded as "developing" or "protected"?

Two reasons: First to give the Juraians some privacy, and secondly because it hasn't made (public) contact with other planets. Again, just my speculation.

I could accept that. Tenchismile

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:Noike states that the only first generation tree was Azusa's Kirito, but wasn't Funaho a first generation tree?

Haven't seen that ep. in a while, but are you sure she's not saying that Kirito is the only remaining active first-gen tree ship? (due to Funaho being stuck on Earth now, I mean.)

Actually, you are correct. She does say "ship", not "tree". blush1
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For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:Why is the Kuramitsu family so ready to go to war over Mihoshi? Admittedly, if Kuramitsu Mikami is so close to Seto, couldn't a more diplomatic solution be given? Also, why is Marshall Kuramitsu Minami cackling like a lunatic and not listening to reason?

More speculation on my side here, but I'd bet that just because Mikami and Seto get along doesn't mean that the rest of the two families do. Heck, the Kuramitsu family doesn't agree on practically anything within themself! (well, unless Mitoto is in the room, that is. >_< )

Controlling the family is not really the issue, though both show significant control over the two families. Look at the +1 special, where Mikami and Seto essentially clean up the entire situation in the presence of Tokimi. Notice that Azusa and empresses are nowhere to be found, despite this would likely be in his jurisdiction.

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:Why does no one notice that Noike is purposefully monopolizing Tenchi, to the point that she seemingly has poisoned him for the purpose of ingratiating herself to him and the household?

And here is where every OVA3-hater (not saying you are one) ends up wanting to cut my head off. 'Cause I just don't see it. I really don't see Noike monopolizing at all... I just see someone who's nature is to keep things organized and neat, and nobody in the house puts forth *enough* effort to stop her. (Japanese politeness and all that Bull...er, Red. Red Bull. Yeah.)
Note: no need to reply to this one. I'm probably wrong, but it's a moot point by now. T_T

Unfortunately, I must disagree. Noike sets the other cast members to work in the house, away from Tenchi. She then spends a significant amount of time alone with Tenchi under the pretext of nursing him. Now, I could accept that the Kagato-F part of her made him ill and the Noike part is doing good. However, even then, the Kagato-F side is played as a naive child, which makes this less likely. While I will agree that she is an organized person, she is still new to the household and readily takes command of affairs without asking permission or if others would mind her actions. That is not polite in the least.

The "effort" issue likely speaks more to how the rest of the cast have had their characterization changed, as Chuck said above. The series 1 cast would likely not allow this stranger to begin ruling their home without discussion or argument.

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:In episode 4, Seto says that Yosho sent word after Ayeka and Sasami had left to find him. Couldn't she have contacted Ryu-Oh or the Guardians while the girls were in stasis to turn them around?

Bets Ayeka's word is law on her ship. Logs' prime directive? "Obey the girl with the whip."

Ayeka is in statis and would not know until she returned to Jurai, and I would think her elders' word would supercede the word of a "runaway girl", as Seto said. Also, Ayeka is never depicted with a whip in the three OVA series, let alone dominant after series 1.

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:In episode 5, only Sasami's combat is shown. Why not any of the others?

Because we already know everyone else is a badass, but seeing Sasami get down and kick around a GP officer is some awesome news!
(And, speculatively, budget and episode-time constraints.)

As nice as Sasami fighting is, Ayeka has not been seen in combat since series 1 episode 6, and not in her combat attire since series 2 episode 5. This was an opportunity to showcase how mighty the characters are and how they handle a threat. It was disappointing to see all the confrontations essentially handwaved to mere dialogue footnotes. Also, considering everyone was pidgeonholed in the battle with Zed, this is even more disheartening. Even Tenchi and Ryoko, who did act against Zed, were pushed aside. The only actual combative actions in series 2 or 3 are the following:
  1. series 2 episode 3: Ryoko blocking the humanoid Masu
  2. series 2 episode 4: Ryoko shooting hair needles at Zero, Zero nearly killing Tenchi
  3. series 2 episode 5: Zero threatening Ayeka, Mihoshi avoiding Shunga's weapons, Mihoshi shooting Clay's robots, Tenchi wielding Tenchiken in Clay's display, Zero threatening Clay, Washu punching out Clay
  4. series 3 episode 1: Zed effortlessly destroying a fleet
  5. series 3 episode 4: Ryoko attacked by a marionette
  6. series 3 episode 5: Sasami versus Mashisu, Ryoko smashing up Chobimaru, Zed attacking Earth
  7. series 3 episode 6: Zed destroying the Moon, Zed worfing Tenchi, the battle in Zed's flashback, Zed worfing Ryoko, Counteractor-Misaki strangling Tokimi and slapping Tsunami

As to budgetary constraints, the afterwards of Kajishima's doujins have discussed "misappropriated funds". As to episode length limitations, I reference Geminar, where the episodes were 45-60 minutes long. Moreover, considering the time people were sitting and talking, more action would have been welcomed.

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:How is Ryo-Ohki both combating the Chobimaru and at the party aboard Tsunami?

101 crystals. I think the main one, the control crystal, is the one on the Tsunami - that's why she's reacting so much to the combat and why Washuu makes sure to keep her stable. (ie, gives carrot.)

I could accept that, given the multitasking comment above.

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:Since Tsunami is there, why is she not stopping the combat? While this does take dramatic emphasis off Misao and Mashisu, it seems unnecessary.

Hmm... maybe she wants Misao to confess, as well?

Their romance could be approached far more naturally, rather than staging the destruction of an expensive spaceship and rigging explosions. The drama seems artificial and unnecessary.

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:Who is the figure of light talking to Tenchi? While it seems to be Tenchi's character design, his identity is not explicitly noted.

Generally, fans have considered him to be Tenchi-Kami. (This makes for an odd conundrum, though! Is God-Tenchi is somehow not confined in the human Tenchi? And does that mean that He has been watching all this happen and only comes down to interact with the situation at that one point when human Tenchi is overwhelmed by rising through the 11 dimensions? Curious, indeed!)

Unfortunately, this is still fan speculation, not fact. This being is not mentioned before the episode, nor after. In the +1 special, Tenchi still commands only three contiguous Light Hawk Wings, though he reconfigures them to have six wing-like extensions. I believe it is safe to assume that the being of light is connected to Tenchi since the character design is essentially his. However, the being could easily be a separate entity, perhaps one of the beings experimenting on the three goddesses, as Ryoko speculates in series 3 episode 6. It is not made clear in the episode.

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:Similarly, why does Misaki have the Counteractor aspect? She has never demonstrated any ability or predilection of this persona or power before. Even then, how is "other Tenchi" able to pacify and remove her?

AstroNerdBoy has a translation of an unanimated scene from ep. 6 here. It makes a little more sense of what you're asking about. Misaki was always an oddball, and a powerful one at that. :/
As for Tenchi pacifying her, I think it's a Tenchi-Kami thing. I'd even go as far a speculating that it's the first time Tenchi really connects with his godhood.


Reading that link and the translation on the forum, the doujin only explains Counteractor-Misaki rampaging on Jurai, asking Tenchi to kill her while he is floating in time with Kagato-F. It does not explain how or why Misaki had this ability. Moreover, the being of light is not mentioned and does not appear.

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:At the end of the episode, Noike and Fuku appear in the past, changing Mihoshi's note as Zed had. While this does ensure the same sequence of events up to episode 5, Noike mentions that this will ensure that Fuku will meet Seina. How so?

Possibly... if it weren't for the Chobimaru incident... the GP wouldn't have bothered to try to recruit Tenchi? I dunno.

The GP do not attempt to recruit Tenchi, so I believe you mean Seina. I could see the GP seeing Ryo-Ohki destroy Chobimaru and see it as a superior ship, thus making them want their own (i.e. Fuku). However, this circles back to how Washu would not create another.

For Washuu wrote:
evilpii wrote:While Nobuyuki mentioned that he found Masaki Kiyone's (and Airi's) script was in bad taste, why did he, among others, proceed with her black comedy? Considering Tenchi's temperment, that seemed in very poor taste, as evidenced by Tenchi's own reaction.

Dying wife's wishes, I guess. It was her work, her gift, so it'd be pretty disrespectful to her *not* to use it as she asked.

I would hope that Nobuyuki would respect his son's feelings enough to ease him into it, as he said he should have in retrospect when he and Tenchi are talking on the pier. Moreover, everyone seems to accept that she is a lunatic. There could have been a compromise that would not have spurred Tenchi to storm out.
User avatar
by JGZinv
#24163 I skimmed, but you're wrong on this one Pii:

The GP do not attempt to recruit Tenchi, so I believe you mean Seina. I could see the GP seeing Ryo-Ohki destroy Chobimaru and see it as a superior ship, thus making them want their own (i.e. Fuku). However, this circles back to how Washu would not create another.


The GP "did" try to recruit Tenchi, it was Amane's fault that she thought Seina was Tenchi and gave him the GP brochure/pad/beacon.
She was there on official business to recruit him so the GP would have claim on Tenchi's power.

From that standpoint, with Tenchi notably surrounded by "vixens" it would seem logical to send the GP's lead blonde bombshell to try to appeal to him.


OK looked at the sub and dub again and we don't know for sure what's in the bag, so hard to say... tho there's some inconsistency as to why Amane would know about Tenchi....
User avatar
by Nobuyuki
#24164
evilpii wrote:Who is Kasumi, and where is she mentioned in the three OVA series?

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This is probably the root of your hangup, piiguy.
Kajishima's continuity encompasses more that the anime. Those True Tenchi Novels he wrote, as well as his doujinshi, are a part of it. It's a multimedia story he's been creating, like it or not. That's why we have the translation projects, to find out what we've been missing on the non-jp. side of the planet.

series 1 Ryoko had an image of being fearless and strong,

But not as strong as Katsuhito (episode 3). mmhmm1

However, series 2 and 3 paint her differently:

Hello, Zero!

And, this is more reason for a separate continuity.

If you wish, you can consider his continuity from OVA 1 as separate as from Hasegawa's offshoot and the manga, already.;)
User avatar
by wwwwhhhhoooo
#24166 *initial skimming of thread

huuuoohhhboy

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*subsequent reviewing of thread

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Mkay, good so far, people playing nice. You all make me proud.

Aaaaaand to save myself from some typing for the time being (instead of addressing individual points):

Included in recent posts are a lot of questions (understandably) from fans over the years to the tune of "why/how was Misaki/Counteractor swooned into submission by Tenchi-kami?" and "why is his own grandmother sexually attracted to him?" (and more recently "why does he sire children with the beloved mascot character?" oh, right, so far it's only "what if?" so some backpedaling could yet still be implemented in the future). After several years of intensive study in this fandom (yes, intensive in fandom terms, I mean I did slightly more studying to obtain my BA for Washu's sake) I can only come to the conclusion ForWashuu stated: because Tenchi. Sure, there's supplemental materials added in subsequently to offer details or some form of explanation for these types of plot points, but when you boil it down to the bare-bones "why?" (not "how?") the answer at the end of the day to such matters is "because he's Tenchi." As a character, Tenchi has gone from likeable underdog to 'that lucky somagun' before arriving to the place we find ourselves today. In a world with humanoid aliens and mysticism intertwined with fantastic technology, the most difficult element for me as a fan to buy is Tenchi's unconscious, hypnotic pull over anything female (stomaching sexism of that level is the topic of another, unrelated rant, so I digress).

Because Kami-Tenchi! It's a joke at this point, and I would even go so far as to say Kajishima now intends for it to be that way--that, or his ego really has gone that out of whack over the years; basing a character off yourself is one thing, even if it's the protagonist with hidden powers, but "God"? No, wait, make that "Tenchi-kami: God of Sexiness, irresistible to women's carnal desires!" Come on, man.


Like everyone else, that's just my opinion and my peace. Ignore it, respond, agree or don't, it's all good in the hood. 8-)
User avatar
by evilpii
#24167
JGZinv wrote:I skimmed, but you're wrong on this one Pii:
evilpii wrote:The GP do not attempt to recruit Tenchi, so I believe you mean Seina. I could see the GP seeing Ryo-Ohki destroy Chobimaru and see it as a superior ship, thus making them want their own (i.e. Fuku). However, this circles back to how Washu would not create another.


The GP "did" try to recruit Tenchi, it was Amane's fault that she thought Seina was Tenchi and gave him the GP brochure/pad/beacon.
She was there on official business to recruit him so the GP would have claim on Tenchi's power.

Unfortunately, you are mistaken. I rewatched the first four episodes of GXP earlier today, and I just doubled checked in both sub and dub. Amane asks Seina, "Is Tenchi-kun training you hard?" She knows Seina is not Tenchi. She then continues by talking about Ryoko and Ayeka's collateral damage, whereupon she offers the pamphlet for the GP to Seina. As she leaves, she shoves a paper bag into Seina's hands, saying "Give this to Tenchi-kun for me." The first four episodes do not reveal what is in the bag, so it could be another pamphlet. However, it is not evident from the episode's content. Moreover, the entire exchange with Kiriko, Amane, Airi, and Mikami does not mention Tenchi ever. If there is further evidence in GXP that support the "Recruit Tenchi" hypothesis, I would be open to seeing it.

Nobuyuki wrote:
evilpii wrote:Who is Kasumi, and where is she mentioned in the three OVA series?

This is probably the root of your hangup, piiguy.
Kajishima's continuity encompasses more that the anime. Those True Tenchi Novels he wrote, as well as his doujinshi, are a part of it. It's a multimedia story he's been creating, like it or not. That's why we have the translation projects, to find out what we've been missing on the non-jp. side of the planet.

If one has to goto an outside media to fill rectify an issue with the story, the story is incomplete as presented. Unfortunately, that means this issue it is still a plothole for the anime. Also, as these novels have not been translated and are printed in limited numbers, these facts are not well-known, even to all Japanese fans. While big franchises such as Star Wars and Star Trek have a history of having apocryphal information in other media, the main series typically do not have plotholes and contradictions. Each story can stand alone without a study guide. If Kasumi was to be a plot point, she should be in the anime.

Nobuyuki wrote:
evilpii wrote:series 1 Ryoko had an image of being fearless and strong,

But not as strong as Katsuhito (episode 3). mmhmm1

I do not see how that is relevant. Kagato was stronger than she was, at least when holding back for Ayeka, and still fought him. Her strength is not just physical. She is also strong-willed. I note again in series 1 episode 6 where she does not back down even after being turned to stone. Even in Hexagram of Love, she stands up to Azusa, despite the threat of having the Divine Response Warrior hounding her until she dies.

Nobuyuki wrote:
evilpii wrote:However, series 2 and 3 paint her differently:

Hello, Zero!

The "Zero changes Ryoko" argument only holds after series 2 episode 5, and I am not counting Zero's impersonation as "Ryoko". In series 1 episodes 2-3, Ryoko is not her usual brash self. In episode 1, they are taking care of Taro, so Ryoko is understandably more subdued, presumably for the baby, reminiscing about Tenchi as an infant. However, episode 2, she gets roped into peeling potatoes. Why would she do that for a stranger when she does not help around her own home? Why would she follow the orders of an old woman she barely knows? In episode 3, Ryoko is mainly a farce, getting smashed in the head with tanuki statues, slapped in the face with books, and running headlong into forcefields. She is comedy relief, not the battle-hardened woman from series 1. She even gets outdone by the humanoid masu, who blasts her aside so Ryo-Ohki can take the spotlight.

Nobuyuki wrote:
evilpii wrote:And, this is more reason for a separate continuity.

If you wish, you can consider his continuity from OVA 1 as separate as from Hasegawa's offshoot and the manga, already.;)

I already do, but I was meaning something more drastic. If Masaki Kajishima wants to rewrite series 1, rather than retconning it in later series, I propose he just start over. He could redo the first series as he wanted it, rather than pollute the original with plotholes, contradictions, and dei ex machinae. That way, everyone wins. Those who like series 1 can have it, isolated and pristine, and those who like Kajishima's work will have exactly what he intended. After all, that seems to be what Hasegawa did with her second and third novels. I eagerly await the next translation as it appears to be a retelling of series 1 episodes 2-5.
User avatar
by Nobuyuki
#24168
evilpii wrote:
Nobuyuki wrote:
evilpii wrote:And, this is more reason for a separate continuity.

If you wish, you can consider his continuity from OVA 1 as separate as from Hasegawa's offshoot and the manga, already.;)

I already do,

Good, you're satisfied, then. aquateencarl1

plotholes, contradictions, and dei ex machinae.

You keep using these words; I do not think they mean what you think they mean.

Those who like series 1 can have it, isolated and pristine, and those who like Kajishima's work will have exactly what he intended.

It's already that way, if you care to think of it as such. Aaand it seems you do. mmhmm1

Enjoy the show.