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Okay, I’m sorry for being away so long, but Now I’m in the mood to discuss this subject. now, LET’S GET TO IT! Story: Scrap the whole thing and start from scratch! Since the first episode was just FILLER, that’ll be easy. Instead, it’d start where it left off; With Asuza plotting Tenchi’s death. Half of the season would be different types of mercenaries coming to earth, try to kill Tenchi and fail. And instead of Z being a plotting little git, we’ll bring him in right at the end like an end-game Boss, but Tokimi would still talk about him.
Characters: If we’re gonna have to put the new ones in (and we have to) that’s fine, I’m pretty ok with that. What we DON’T WANT is Bring them all in within like a frame’s worth and have them shoved down our throats and pretending they were here the whole time. Instead, we would introduce them episode by episode ala OVA1. As a bonus Washu would mention Akara Naja via a flashback.
Graphics/Animation: Fire the Art Director who thought it was a good idea to make them semi-realistic! I mean… EEEEEEAAAUUUGHjibblyjibblyjibbly… I’m all for keeping the art style of old, but failing that, a more cartoon look is a decent alternative. Just look how Tenchi in Tokyo looked. Oh, and one more thing… where were the fight scenes? This show NEEDS Fight scenes! First Episode, Tenchi meets an assassin, Put a Fight scene there.
There is one more thing I’d add to this renovation, the cherry on top if you will…
https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/1331214882/Petrea__cropped_normal.jpg " /> There, now If I can go back in time, I could save this show from total damnation! -
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I would have liked more episodes. That way, Kajishima could have had room to to
tell all the story he wanted toon the cutting room floorAnd with that, I’m outta’ this YAFBO
3T. 
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_livhi6uXLd1qi7deco1_500.gif " /> One more thing:
Nobuyuki wrote:dillpops wrote:So, Nobu. How do you feel about the new series ^^ from the looks of it it just seems to be getting more and more messy 0_o or at least complicated.This is why it’d be nice to have English-language access to all of Mr. K’s novels and doujinshi. Because people will scream. And say hateful things. The revelations in the last episode are something we’ve been discussing at AFC for a couple of years now, so it’s not as much of a surprise as a “Hmm, we were right after all.”
Although I’m in the camp who’s disappointed that a couple of questions that have been carried through since the first series have yet to be touched upon, and I doubt that the special episode coming this fall is going to cover them.
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GregTheLion wrote:
Story: Scrap the whole thing and start from scratch! Since the first episode was just FILLER, that’ll be easy.
Heh! The one episode with character development for Ryoko and you want is scrapped? ^_~ I guess that amuses me more since the haters always claim that Ryoko and the other girls aren’t really in OVA 3.
Quote:Instead, it’d start where it left off; With Asuza plotting Tenchi’s death.The novel
Washudeals with this, which is why it wasn’t covered in OVA 3. And Azusa wasn’t plotting Tenchi’s death as such. He was plotting to remove Tenchi as a suitor. He and the wives returned multiple times to Earth, but each time, Mihoshi ended up thwarting things, much as she did in OVA 2 episode 6. It has been a while, but my memory is that eventually Azusa realized that he wasn’t going to get his way after Mishoshi still crashed his plans despite careful preparations to prevent her from doing this again (by which time, no one else even cared about these duels Azusa was arranging). Quote:And instead of Z being a plotting little git, we’ll bring him in right at the end like an end-game Boss, but Tokimi would still talk about him.Z was forced to be a plotting little git because of Tokimi. However, his scheme to remove Tokimi AND keep to Tokimi’s mandate failed, so he destroyed a massive chunk of Earth to get to Tenchi — like a boss.
Quote:Characters: If we’re gonna have to put the new ones in (and we have to) that’s fine, I’m pretty ok with that. What we DON’T WANT is Bring them all in within like a frame’s worth and have them shoved down our throats and pretending they were here the whole time. Instead, we would introduce them episode by episode ala OVA1.*lol* I think your memory is playing tricks on you.
Tenyo is introduced in OVA 3 episode 1. Noike and Airi are introduced to the TM!R anime (they’d been established LONG before in the canon franchise) in OVA 3 episode 2. Misao and Mashisu are introduced in episode 3 (IIRC — haven’t watched in ages). Seto is introduced in episode 4. Kagato-chan is introduced in episode 6.
As to “pretending they were here the whole time,” that’s what you get for not being Japanese, or at the very least, not watching GXP.
As a bonus Washu would mention Akara Naja via a flashback.This is why I want the
True Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-ohkinovels to be animated. Naja is covered in great detail in the novel Washu. Quote:Graphics/Animation: Fire the Art Director who thought it was a good idea to make them semi-realistic! I mean… EEEEEEAAAUUUGHjibblyjibblyjibbly… I’m all for keeping the art style of old, but failing that, a more cartoon look is a decent alternative.I agree that the character designs, especially for Ryoko, didn’t have me jazzed. I’m used to them now, but still…
Quote:Oh, and one more thing… where were the fight scenes? This show NEEDS Fight scenes! First Episode, Tenchi meets an assassin, Put a Fight scene there.This is the best point you have. Episode 4 set up what looked to be EPIC fights, but then episode 5 had all the fights done, with a stupid flashback to Sasami-chan fighting Mashisu. I hated this with a passion and still do. Based on conversations I’ve had with other writers as well as listening to writers providing commentary on DVD/BD TV series/movies, I suspect that Kajishima-sensei was bored with the notion of a fight scene. In his mind, we had Ryoko and Aeka fight Kagato in OVA 1, so seeing them fight what would clearly be lesser opponents would be a “been there, done that.” However, since we’d never seen Sasami-chan fight, he put in that scene, but killed it by making it a flashback.
Quote:There, now If I can go back in time, I could save this show from total damnation!Of a damned show, it has been quite profitable for AIC, VAP, and FUNimation. ^_~
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susano wrote:
I will make Kiyone Makibi to be Mihoshi’s ex-partner instead of Noike.Well, that’s the one thing that would never happen.
Mihoshi Specialthough. -
AstroNerdBoy wrote:
As to “pretending they were here the whole time,” that’s what you get for not being Japanese, or at the very least, not watching GXP.If Kajishima-sensei had NOT included characters like Airi or Seto-sama in OVA 3, Japanese fans would have gone nuts since by this time, they were well established characters in Japan. The problem here is that they WEREN’T established in the Anime, which precedes everything else, also keep in mind, that just because Kajishima released a few hundred Doujinshi, that doesn’t mean every Japanese person watching the show is going to know the in’s and outs of everything, that’s like introducing someone from the Star Wars novels, most people don’t have a flipping clue who they are (and don’t care really) and saying “OH WELL, insert variable about being a fan, etc”, Sure GXP Introduced them, but thats GXP, they were NOT first introduced with the rest of the main cast, and I’ve never liked that because their is always, ALWAYS going to be a feeling of disconnect, which really hinders character dynamics (especially when our already established cast are anything but their former selves), so that’s not a legitimate defense to a poorly scripted OVA.
AstroNerdBoy wrote:Of a damned show, it has been quite profitable for AIC, VAP, and FUNimation. ^_~The Titanic was pretty profitable too, before it sank, lol
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Dagon123 wrote:AstroNerdBoy wrote:
As to “pretending they were here the whole time,” that’s what you get for not being Japanese, or at the very least, not watching GXP.If Kajishima-sensei had NOT included characters like Airi or Seto-sama in OVA 3, Japanese fans would have gone nuts since by this time, they were well established characters in Japan. The problem here is that they WEREN’T established in the Anime, which precedes everything else
, also keep in mind, that just because Kajishima released a few hundred Doujinshi, that doesn’t mean every Japanese person watching the show is going to know the in’s and outs of everything, that’s like introducing someone from the Star Wars novels, most people don’t have a flipping clue who they are (and don’t care really) and saying “OH WELL, insert variable about being a fan, etc”, Sure GXP Introduced them, but thats GXP, they were NOT first introduced with the rest of the main cast, and I’ve never liked that because their is always, ALWAYS going to be a feeling of disconnect, which really hinders character dynamics (especially when our already established cast are anything but their former selves), so that’s not a legitimate defense to a poorly scripted OVA.
GXP is part of the canon. It was aired before OVA 3 was even allowed to be made. I can promise you that Tenchi fans in Japan saw GXP and were well acquainted with Seto, Airi, and even Noike, since she’s shown with the gang in episode 17. Back on the old AIC boards, it used to be heavily discussed as it was coming out in Japan. However, I am aware of the fact that a number of fans refused to watch GXP because it wasn’t “Tenchi” in their mind.
Quote:AstroNerdBoy wrote:Of a damned show, it has been quite profitable for AIC, VAP, and FUNimation. ^_~The Titanic was pretty profitable too, before it sank, lol
Heh! The problem with your analogy is that OVA 3 hasn’t sunk, which is why Psycho still rants and raves, and why haters are going to hate.
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Kiyoka wrote:Dagon123 wrote:
AstroNerdBoy wrote:Of a damned show, it has been quite profitable for AIC, VAP, and FUNimation. ^_~The Titanic was pretty profitable too, before it sank, lol
You just won the internet badassplz
Until it sank five minutes ago.
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AstroNerdBoy wrote:
GXP is part of the canon. It was aired before OVA 3 was even allowed to be made. I can promise you that Tenchi fans in Japan saw GXP and were well acquainted with Seto, Airi, and even Noike, since she’s shown with the gang in episode 17. Back on the old AIC boards, it used to be heavily discussed as it was coming out in Japan. However, I am aware of the fact that a number of fans refused to watch GXP because it wasn’t “Tenchi” in their mind.
Whether or not it’s canon isn’t the problem, the problem is how well they integrate into the story and the dynamic they create because of it, that’s called bad writing, them being in GXP is fine, people can associate them with that, but just saying “They fit because they were there” doesn’t change the fact that any of them showing up in OVA3, and the scenes afterwards totally destroyed the entire point of Ayeka going to earth in the first place (and retconned a few things along the way), and reduced a heartfelt moment in OVA 1 to “I was on the other end of the Galaxy, hue” That fish is 3 days old, and I ain’t buying it.
AstroNerdBoy wrote:Heh! The problem with your analogy is that OVA 3 hasn’t sunk, which is why Psycho still rants and raves, and why haters are going to hate.
That’s all subjective, just because you want to go down with the ship, doesn’t mean the rest of us do, nor does it make any of those people haters
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AstroNerdBoy wrote:
The novelWashudeals with this, which is why it wasn’t covered in OVA 3. And Azusa wasn’t plotting Tenchi’s death as such. He was plotting to remove Tenchi as a suitor. He and the wives returned multiple times to Earth, but each time, Mihoshi ended up thwarting things, much as she did in OVA 2 episode 6. It has been a while, but my memory is that eventually Azusa realized that he wasn’t going to get his way after Mishoshi still crashed his plans despite careful preparations to prevent her from doing this again (by which time, no one else even cared about these duels Azusa was arranging). AstroNerdBoy wrote:
As to “pretending they were here the whole time,” that’s what you get for not being Japanese, or at the very least, not watching GXP.
You know what, I am
SOglad you brought up the Novels and Doujin, and I agree in thinking I could be put to rest knowing these characters were first introduced in said novels- IF ANYONE HAD PUBLISHED SOME ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS!!frageplz -
I agree with Dagon’s last statement. No one here is a “hater”. Everyone who has posted so far is in agreement that on at least some level OVA 3 was flawed, the disagreements lay almost exclusively in the realm of individual preference. I cannot speak for the larger fandom, but during my time at this forum I have NEVER heard anyone bash OVA 3 simply because “it’s different,” or “it’s stupid.” The validity of their opinion is, and aught to be, always open to argument, but the people here have always arrived at them by rational rather than emotional means. Now that I’ve said my peace about that, I think I’ll wade into the fray (rationally of course!
First, I fully acknowledge the validity of ANB’s point that the lack of Japanese materials is a LARGE barrier to entry for western fans, especially with respect to the “new” characters. That being said, however, I felt that the “new” characters were a drag on the show purely based on their own faults. I felt that the Seto and Noike characters were the embodiment of Mary Sues; they were perfect and right %100 of the time, purely because that was their role in the series. Airi and Tenyo were a bit better in that they provided some comic relief/entertainment, but they were really just one-trick ponies and offered little of substance to the show itself. Little girl Kagato seemed to me to be thrown in purely because Kajishima thought it was cool/wanted to make a connection with the novels, no matter how unrelated to the matter at hand.
That’s my bit about the characters, I have more to say about OVA 3, but I thought I’d try (futilely perhaps
Well there it is, my rationale for OVA 3. As I said, all of this is built around individual preferences, so approve or dismiss my opinions as you judge fit.
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>Seto>Mary Sue
lol what? Seto is a sadistic old hag, whom practically creams herself every time someone is forced to kiss her royal behind, she “secretly” controls Jurai and at one point had a lesbian harem (IIRC). Nothing about that sounds even remotely “Mary Sue”.
http://i48.tinypic.com/afa3cg.jpg
" /> See what type of details you miss by entirely avoiding GXP & what little of the doujins were translated? -
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if I would have done ova 3 differently I would give it a story -
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chucklocker wrote:
I cannot speak for the larger fandom, but during my time at this forum I have NEVER heard anyone bash OVA 3 simply because “it’s different,” or “it’s stupid.” The validity of their opinion is, and aught to be, always open to argument, but the people here have always arrived at them by rational rather than emotional means.Just so we are clear, my “haters” remarks were not targeted at the people of this forum. I’m led to believe that there IS a forum filled with haters, whom after all these years still wallow in their hatred for how TM!R turned out. Obviously, that is not a forum I would be a part of.
Quote:Now that I’ve said my peace about that, I think I’ll wade into the fray (rationally of course!First, I fully acknowledge the validity of ANB’s point that the lack of Japanese materials is a LARGE barrier to entry for western fans, especially with respect to the “new” characters.
To widen this out a bit, the real problem is in how the Japanese do canon stuff vs. how we in the West do stuff. For example, the
Star Trekfranchise canon consists of the original TV series, the TNGTV series, the DS9TV series (my personal favorite), the VoyagerTV series, the EnterpriseTV series, and the various movies up through the remake (where a new continuity starts). All of the novels that have been written are not considered canon, thus everything related to the Star Trekstory is displayed on screen. That’s how most of our franchises in the West work. There are small exceptions, like the
Babylon 5franchise, which consists of a TV series, several TV movies/specials, and the aborted canon-spinoff, Crusade(bloody TNT executives at the time). Everything we want to know is tied up in what we see on screen. However, there are a few canon novels (as either written by, or endorsed by series creator JMS) which help flesh out certain things, such as the technomages. However, if you don’t read these novels, are you missing anything? I can’t say for sure since I’ve not read them (I do have the technomage trillogy but just haven’t taken the time to read them). In Japan, they believe in a true, multimedia presentation of a canon story. As such, part of the story may be told in a novel. Part of it may be in an anime. Another part might be in a video game. Still more might be in a manga.
Take the
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanohafranchise. This was spun out of a hentai video game called Triangle Hearts 3, where Nanoha’s older brother and female cousin (who’s basically adopted into Nanoha’s family) are two of the three main stars. Although Nanoharetains some elements of the game, such as Nahoha’s family structure, the rest is ditched. That being said, the franchise has produced a few canon manga titles and the like. For example, the manga Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS THE COMICSwas made to bridge the time gap between the Nahoha A’sanime series and the StrikerSanime series. If you watch StrikerSwithout having read the manga, you will notice that there are things eluded to but never revealed in the anime. That’s because the production team assumes that the Japanese audience (remember, most anime isn’t made with us in the West in mind) will have read that bridge manga and know what is going on, or will simply go out and buy the manga to learn the truth. Unfortunately for us in the West, we almost never get access to this additional material that in Japan is easily available. Plus, the mindset in Japan is that REAL fans will buy EVERYTHING story-related to a franchise. Their whole blasted economic model for anime, manga, and light novels is based on this, and getting the otaku to collect other things too (figures, cards, other collectables). We don’t have that mindset in the West. We expect a TV series, whether animated or live-action, to play out completely in that format (discounting adaptations, such as a movie being made from a novel). We don’t want to have to buy six comic books, two novels, and a fan guide book on top of the DVDs/BDs we purchased in order to get the whole, canon story of a specific franchise.
In that light, I completely understand Tenchi fan frustration with things, especially if they weren’t aware of the materials in the novels, doujinshi, etc. That was why I took over the FAQ from Death Quaker in the first place, to give fans at least some tidbits that I’d learned so as to make their Tenchi experience more enjoyable.
Quote:That being said, however, I felt that the “new” characters were a drag on the show purely based on their own faults.Interestingly enough, when FUNimation first started releasing OVA 3, the FAQ traffic went WAY up, which is understandable. I used to get a lot of e-mail from people who were introduced to TM!R through OVA 3. When OVA 3 was fully released, I did ask some of these folks their opinions. It is purely anecdotal, but what I discovered was that when people were introduced to TM!R via OVA 3, they didn’t have a problem with any of the characters. I attributed this to the fact that they hadn’t had years to develop deep attachments to other characters, and so were more accepting of these “new” characters.
Quote:I felt that the Seto and Noike characters were the embodiment of Mary Sues; they were perfect and right %100 of the time, purely because that was their role in the series..
I never felt that way about them. Having watched GXP, I never saw Seto as perfect, though she was sadistic and very manipulative in order to get her way. With Noike, I saw the girl who’d run the household since Sasami-chan is too young to do so. Having her be the officially arranged wife makes it easy to have her be the “head wife” since it was clear that Kajishima-sensei was going to have a harem ending. There too, I didn’t see her as “perfect.”
Quote:Airi and Tenyo were a bit better in that they provided some comic relief/entertainment, but they were really just one-trick ponies and offered little of substance to the show itself.Well, their main function was to show Tenchi, who clearly felt quite alone after his mother’s death, that he had more family than he knew — an older sister and a whacky grandmother. As such, he wasn’t as alone as he had thought (and that plays into the question that Funaho raised in OVA 2 episode 6 regarding this new “family” of Tenchi’s, should Jurai decide to force Aeka and Sasami to come home).
Quote:Little girl Kagato seemed to me to be thrown in purely because Kajishima thought it was cool/wanted to make a connection with the novels, no matter how unrelated to the matter at hand.Even before GXP was created, Kajishima-sensei had promised that Kagato would return, even if not in the same form as we’d known him before. The thing is, the novels were Kajishima-sensei’s way of fleshing out the massive backstory that lead to Tenchi’s being born. In many ways, what he did was very similar to what J.R.R. Tolkien did for the
Hobbitand Lord of the Rings. Quote:A spin-off should be propped up by its parent show, not vice versa.Blame that on AIC. They were the ones who insisted that Kajishima-sensei had to do GXP first and that it had to be successful before they’d allow
OVA 3to be created, and since they were paying the bills, that’s the way it had to be. OVA 3 could have benefited from more episodes to (1) accommodate Kajishima-sensei’s passion for “day in the life” stories and (2) allow for better story flow. That being said, I still say that the Japanese mindset that I described earlier would have trumped, thus even with more episodes, Kajishima and the production staff may still have punted on some things, expecting fans to know things from either GXP and/or the novels and doujinshi.
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- In episode 4, Clay chooses to ignore his given mission to pursue Washu. What was his original mission?
- Moreover, D3 states that someone had already been assigned to retrieve Washu. Who was that? Wouldn’t that character interfere with Clay and Zero?
- In episode 6, Empress Funaho complains that Yosho had not sent word in 700 years. Does this not contradict Seto’s statements in series 3 about a secret communique?
- Washu says she will not create another Ryoko, or Ryo-Ohki-like warship by extension, and will not help anyone to do so. Doesn’t this rule out Fuku’s creation in GXP?
- Azusa had an issue with Yosho about him having a child with a Terran, but in series 3, he is married to Airi, who moreover states that she is Masaki Kiyone’s mother. Is this not a contradiction?
- In “Here Comes Jurai, Part 2”, D3 goes to wipe Clay and Zero’s memories. Why is this, considering that in series 3, Washu is fully realized as a goddess and fully aware of Tokimi’s existence? Would knowledge of Tokimi’s location already be known to her?
- Rea is introduced as having existed in Tenchi’s life when he was a boy. If so, why is she not mentioned or seen in the series 1 flashbacks, considering her place in series 3 and even, debatably, Geminar?
- In episode 2, Noike is introduced as the adoptive daughter of Seto. Why would Seto adopt a fairly unremarkable GP officer, considering all the scheming that went into her proposed adoption of Mashisu? Even if she was privy to Noike’s contact with Clay, Zed, and Kagato-F(emale), why install her into the Masaki household on Earth? She seems far more of a threat than a boon.
- Why does Nobuyuki try to kiss passionately his own daughter? That seems very inappropriate, considering he is soon to marry Rea.
- Moreover, why does Airi try to kiss passionately her grandson, with her husband standing just a few meters away? Again, wasn’t Katsuhito’s wife Terran, spurring the issue with Azusa?
- Why would Ryoko, or even Kagato, be intimated by Airi or Seto? Ryoko is notorious for sacking and crushing Jurai’s defenses, and Kagato is known as the “Ruins Buster” and is eternally wanted by the GP. I have a hard time seeing either cowering in fear of a single Juraian woman.
- If so many children of Juraian lineage live on and leave Earth, why is Earth still regarded as “developing” or “protected”?
- In episode 3, Noike discusses the generations of Juraian trees and states that Ryu-Oh fought with Ryo-Ohki 700 years ago. Why wasn’t this spoken of in series 1, when Ayeka was introduced? Wasn’t Yosho the one to leave to fight Ryoko? Also, Noike states that the only first generation tree was Azusa’s Kirito, but wasn’t Funaho a first generation tree? Hence, Tenchiken is a first generation master key that can control Ryu-Oh in series 1 episodes 2 and 5?
- Moreover, why does Noike have Kyoko, a top-secret upgraded third generation tree? Presumably, this would be because of Seto, which emphasizes the question of why Seto would be interested in a no-name GP officer.
- Why is the Kuramitsu family so ready to go to war over Mihoshi? Admittedly, if Kuramitsu Mikami is so close to Seto, couldn’t a more diplomatic solution be given? Also, why is Marshall Kuramitsu Minami cackling like a lunatic and not listening to reason?
- Why does no one notice that Noike is purposefully monopolizing Tenchi, to the point that she seemingly has poisoned him for the purpose of ingratiating herself to him and the household?
- What happened to Mihoshi all those years go to make Misao so protective of her?
- In episode 4, Seto says that Yosho sent word after Ayeka and Sasami had left to find him. Couldn’t she have contacted Ryu-Oh or the Guardians while the girls were in statis to turn them around?
- If Seto could have gotten word from Yosho, couldn’t Ayeka and Sasami have sent word back after Yosho revealed himself? Why did it take until Azusa arrived unannounced before Jurai came to investigate? Moreover, if Earth was already well-known, wouldn’t it be the first place to look?
- In episode 5, only Sasami’s combat is shown. Why not any of the others?
- How is Ryo-Ohki both combating the Chobimaru and at the party aboard Tsunami?
- Since Tsunami is there, why is she not stopping the combat? While this does take dramatic emphasis off Misao and Mashisu, it seems unnecessary.
- In episode 6, Washu reveals her goddess aspect from the two gems remaining in Tenchiken. Why hasn’t she manifested this sooner, say when Kagato took her prisoner or when
Shungaimploded into a black hole? - Who is the figure of light talking to Tenchi? While it seems to be Tenchi’s character design, his identity is not explicitly noted.
- Similarly, why does Misaki have the Counteractor aspect? She has never demonstrated any ability or predilection of this persona or power before. Even then, how is “other Tenchi” able to passify and remove her?
- At the end of the episode, Noike and Fuku appear in the past, changing Mihoshi’s note as Zed had. While this does ensure the same sequence of events up to episode 5, Noike mentions that this will ensure that Fuku will meet Seina. How so?
- In the +1 special, Marshall Kuramitsu Minami is deposed by his sister, Kuramitsu Mikami. While I don’t disagree that he should be punished for his actions, how does she have the power to override him? Her place in the political structure is not explained in this series.
- While Nobuyuki mentioned that he found Masaki Kiyone’s (and Airi’s) script was in bad taste, why did he, among others, proceed with her black comedy? Considering Tenchi’s temperment, that seemed in very poor taste, as evidenced by Tenchi’s own reaction.
- Why are Rea and Noike the only ones allowed to console Tenchi? One would think that Ryoko or Nobuyuki might be better suited for the task, particularly as Ryoko watched over him when his mother died. Also, admittedly, it seems more Nobuyuki’s place as father to explain this to his son.
- Washu states that just as Sasami could beat Ayeka to Tenchi, Ryo-Ohki could beat Ryoko to him as well. While this might be in jest, that is off-color, even for Washu.
- According to Washu’s theory, Noike is a fragment personality from Kagato-F, who was picked up by Noike’s “mother”. Clay later sealed the Kagato-F side away, and Zed found and used her to spy on the household throughout series 3. Tokimi allows the other persona to speak, and Washu removes the seal, allowing them to fuse into one entity, much like Ryoko and Zero. How and when did Clay and Zed accomplish all of this? Wouldn’t Clay have mentioned a contingency plan or arrangement with Zed in series 2?
In episode 1, the tree Funaho sends a message into space. To whom was that message sent? This is unlikelyRyu-Ohas the Guardians state in episode 2 that they detected Ryoko. OVA 2
Whatever happened to Ryu-Oh? She was planted in the core unit in “Night Before the Carnival”, but she is never seen again in the entire series.OVA 3
In episode 1, how can Ryo-Ohki get lost? As Washu said, she is the computer unit of a battleship. Also in series 2, Ryo-Ohki is shown able to levitate. Couldn’t she simply float up to see where she is, or go into space and find her home by herself?On a personal note, I did not enjoy seeing Ryoko, Ayeka, and even Mihoshi pigeonholed for most of series 2 and 3. Admittedly, Sasami and Washu deserved character development episodes, and even Noike as well. However, I do believe this came at a high cost to three characters who, arguably, are part of the core of
Tenchi. -
Here’s a couple that I at least had some comments on. (the rest I more or less have to agree with you, I think. Maybe.)
Azusa had an issue with Yosho about him having a child with a Terran, but in series 3, he is married to Airi, who moreover states that she is Masaki Kiyone’s mother. Is this not a contradiction?
Er… maybe Azusa is refering to an earlier wife?
In “Here Comes Jurai, Part 2”, D3 goes to wipe Clay and Zero’s memories. Why is this, considering that in series 3, Washu is fully realized as a goddess and fully aware of Tokimi’s existence? Would knowledge of Tokimi’s location already be known to her?
I don’t think that’s done because of Washuu – I think it’s more or less to keep Clay from being a pest again by meddling any further into the Choushin’s business. Maybe. >shrug<
In episode 1, how can Ryo-Ohki get lost? As Washu said, she is the computer unit of a battleship. Also in series 2, Ryo-Ohki is shown able to levitate. Couldn’t she simply float up to see where she is, or go into space and find her home by herself?
I had wondered about that sequence, but I think it’s just that she’s overcome by the situation and doesn’t think really rationally. She’s suddenly alone, and like a little kid she doesn’t stop to calm down and think rationally. (Well, she is
In episode 2, Noike is introduced as the adoptive daughter of Seto. Why would Seto adopt a fairly unremarkable GP officer, considering all the scheming that went into her proposed adoption of Mashisu? Even if she was privy to Noike’s contact with Clay, Zed, and Kagato-F(emale), why install her into the Masaki household on Earth? She seems far more of a threat than a boon.
I’d guess it’s because she’s also adopted. She seems to have a thing for adopting people, and she also has a habit of deciding some things on impulse.
Why does Nobuyuki try to kiss passionately his own daughter? That seems very inappropriate, considering he is soon to marry Rea.
He’s a tease. He’s a perv. He’s a bit of a troll.
Moreover, why does Airi try to kiss passionately her grandson, with her husband standing just a few meters away?
‘Cause he’s Tenchi, of course!
Why would Ryoko, or even Kagato, be intimated by Airi or Seto? Ryoko is notorious for sacking and crushing Jurai’s defenses, and Kagato is known as the “Ruins Buster” and is eternally wanted by the GP. I have a hard time seeing either cowering in fear of a single Juraian woman.
I think it’s more because of how crazy she is. I mean… Seto is pretty well a nutcase when it comes to either manipulating people or killing pirates. Ryoko was in a somewhat-stable house situation when she reacts to hearing Seto was coming, so that’s understandable, but Kagato… hm. I guess even insane, ruins-busting, people-killing, planet-busting organists don’t enjoy run-ins with people equally insane? That’s what I’d guess.
If so many children of Juraian lineage live on and leave Earth, why is Earth still regarded as “developing” or “protected”?
Two reasons: First to give the Juraians some privacy, and secondly because it hasn’t made (public) contact with other planets. Again, just my speculation.
Noike states that the only first generation tree was Azusa’s Kirito, but wasn’t Funaho a first generation tree?
Haven’t seen that ep. in a while, but are you sure she’s not saying that Kirito is the only remaining active
Moreover, why does Noike have Kyoko, a top-secret upgraded third generation tree? Presumably, this would be because of Seto, which emphasizes the question of why Seto would be interested in a no-name GP officer.
Er… more perspective on how haphazard Seto is in her management of people and resources? I dunno.
Why is the Kuramitsu family so ready to go to war over Mihoshi? Admittedly, if Kuramitsu Mikami is so close to Seto, couldn’t a more diplomatic solution be given? Also, why is Marshall Kuramitsu Minami cackling like a lunatic and not listening to reason?
More speculation on my side here, but I’d bet that just because Mikami and Seto get along doesn’t mean that the rest of the two families do. Heck, the Kuramitsu family doesn’t agree on practically anything within themself! (well, unless Mitoto is in the room, that is. >_< )
Why does no one notice that Noike is purposefully monopolizing Tenchi, to the point that she seemingly has poisoned him for the purpose of ingratiating herself to him and the household?
And here is where every OVA3-hater (not saying you are one) ends up wanting to cut my head off. ‘Cause I just don’t see it. I really don’t see Noike monopolizing at all… I just see someone who’s nature is to keep things organized and neat, and nobody in the house puts forth *enough* effort to stop her. (Japanese politeness and all that Bull…er, Red. Red Bull. Yeah.)
Note: no need to reply to this one. I’m probably wrong, but it’s a moot point by now. T_T
What happened to Mihoshi all those years ago to make Misao so protective of her?
That is the perpetual question…
In episode 4, Seto says that Yosho sent word after Ayeka and Sasami had left to find him. Couldn’t she have contacted Ryu-Oh or the Guardians while the girls were in stasis to turn them around?
Bets Ayeka’s word is law on her ship. Logs’ prime directive? “Obey the girl with the whip.”
If Seto could have gotten word from Yosho, couldn’t Ayeka and Sasami have sent word back after Yosho revealed himself? Why did it take until Azusa arrived unannounced before Jurai came to investigate? Moreover, if Earth was already well-known, wouldn’t it be the first place to look?
Here I just agree with you.
In episode 5, only Sasami’s combat is shown. Why not any of the others?
Because we already know everyone else is a badass, but seeing Sasami get down and kick around a GP officer is some awesome news!
(And, speculatively, budget and episode-time constraints.)
How is Ryo-Ohki both combating the Chobimaru and at the party aboard Tsunami?
101 crystals. I think the main one, the control crystal, is the one on the Tsunami – that’s why she’s reacting so much to the combat and why Washuu makes sure to keep her stable. (ie, gives carrot.)
Since Tsunami is there, why is she not stopping the combat? While this does take dramatic emphasis off Misao and Mashisu, it seems unnecessary.
Hmm… maybe she wants Misao to confess, as well?
In episode 6, Washu reveals her goddess aspect from the two gems remaining in Tenchiken. Why hasn’t she manifested this sooner, say when Kagato took her prisoner or when Shunga
I’ve wondered the same thing, and the best I can figure is that either she wasn’t fully aware yet, or that the threat wasn’t as ultimate as that of Z. Or both.
Who is the figure of light talking to Tenchi? While it seems to be Tenchi’s character design, his identity is not explicitly noted.
Generally, fans have considered him to be Tenchi-Kami. (This makes for an odd conundrum, though! Is God-Tenchi is somehow not confined in the human Tenchi? And does that mean that He has been watching all this happen and only comes down to interact with the situation at that one point when human Tenchi is overwhelmed by rising through the 11 dimensions? Curious, indeed!)
Similarly, why does Misaki have the Counteractor aspect? She has never demonstrated any ability or predilection of this persona or power before. Even then, how is “other Tenchi” able to pacify and remove her?
AstroNerdBoy has a translation of an unanimated scene from ep. 6 here.
As for Tenchi pacifying her, I think it’s a Tenchi-Kami thing. I’d even go as far a speculating that it’s the first time Tenchi really connects with his godhood.
At the end of the episode, Noike and Fuku appear in the past, changing Mihoshi’s note as Zed had. While this does ensure the same sequence of events up to episode 5, Noike mentions that this will ensure that Fuku will meet Seina. How so?
Possibly… if it weren’t for the Chobimaru incident… the GP wouldn’t have bothered to try to recruit Tenchi? I dunno.
While Nobuyuki mentioned that he found Masaki Kiyone’s (and Airi’s) script was in bad taste, why did he, among others, proceed with her black comedy? Considering Tenchi’s temperment, that seemed in very poor taste, as evidenced by Tenchi’s own reaction.
Dying wife’s wishes, I guess. It was her work, her gift, so it’d be pretty disrespectful to her *not* to use it as she asked.
Why are Rea and Noike the only ones allowed to console Tenchi? One would think that Ryoko or Nobuyuki might be better suited for the task, particularly as Ryoko watched over him when his mother died. Also, admittedly, it seems more Nobuyuki’s place as father to explain this to his son.
I’ll reply with my opinion, but only if I get promises from certain people on this board that they won’t follow it up at all.
Washu states that just as Sasami could beat Ayeka to Tenchi, Ryo-Ohki could beat Ryoko to him as well. While this might be in jest, that is off-color, even for Washu.
It is? (eh. Different perception is different.)
If I’ve been of any help at all, then I have a favor to call in. If I’ve just been the opinionated jerk that I usually am, then sorry. It’s pretty hard for me to tell the difference when it’s this early in the morning. (Oh, lord. When did 10:17 a.m. become “early in the morning”??)
Anyway, I generallyMr. Kajishima
K: I had the ideas way back to “Tenchi Muyo! Ryohki” the 1st and I already knew how to end the story when I was directing “Tenchi Muyo! Ryohki” the 2nd. I just don’t have the detail about how to connect each images and fragments of the base storyline in my mind. It’s just an outline, not very specific.
T: Do you have it now?
K: No. (Laugh). I only know where the goal is, but have no clear idea how to get there. But, I have decided “where” I would or should pass to reach the goal.
T: In other words, you are going to enjoy the “fun” of connecting the images and fragments from now on.
K: Yes. That is right. I will fix or change the detail depends on my chose. But the basic concept of the ending had been made. That will never be changed.
Basically, Kajishima doesn’t sweat the little stuff in favor of getting to the end of the story, which is maddening from a fan’s perspective, and is largely why nailing down one true listing of what is “canon” is such a uniquely troublesome problem in Tenchi fandom. Finally, the “third tier” of your points, those dealing with the changes made to the characters’ personalities, such as Kagato being afraid of Seto, and Ryoko and Ayeka rolling over for Airi, Seto, and Noike, is where most of my frustration comes from. The only thing I can think of is that so much time had passed in real life between OVAs that the characters were simply not the same people in the mind of the writers and show runners as they were back in the 90’s. This led to a lot resentment, I think justly so, on the part of fans who had come to know and love every aspect of the characters, and were now seeing them through the eyes of a creator who’s interpretations had drifted quite significantly in the intervening years. I won’t defend or condemn any of these explanations/excuses (in this post at least,
Azusa had an issue with Yosho about him having a child with a Terran, but in series 3, he is married to Airi, who moreover states that she is Masaki Kiyone’s mother. Is this not a contradiction?
Er… maybe Azusa is refering to an earlier wife?
Such as Funaho’s niece, Kasumi. Badmouthing her would set Funaho off. And it looks like it did.
Who is Kasumi, and where is she mentioned in the three OVA series? In particular, if Yosho had been married to Empress Funaho’s niece, would she not have been mentioned in Funaho’s scolding of Azusa in series 2 episode 6? After all, he would then be insulting two members of her family (her sister and herself), not just some random Terran woman. Also, this seems a contradiction when Airi is introduced. This is a point to clarify when the OVA series is considered as a whole.
In episode 6, Washu reveals her goddess aspect from the two gems remaining in Tenchiken. Why hasn’t she manifested this sooner, say when Kagato took her prisoner or when Shunga
I’ve wondered the same thing, and the best I can figure is that either she wasn’t fully aware yet, or that the threat wasn’t as ultimate as that of Z. Or both.
Never play an ace when a two will do.
I could accept that she was not fully aware of herself, though it seems unclear as to when she manifests fully. In this case, when did her power fully manifest?
In the other case where she merely judged the threats not as dire, this causes some problems. If she was fully aware of her power against Kagato or Clay, she could have waved her hand and rectified both situations. More importantly, the episode with Clay aboard Shunga
Moreover, as a goddess, why would she suffer being sealed in a crystal aboard Soja
Why are Rea and Noike the only ones allowed to console Tenchi? One would think that Ryoko or Nobuyuki might be better suited for the task, particularly as Ryoko watched over him when his mother died. Also, admittedly, it seems more Nobuyuki’s place as father to explain this to his son.
I’ll reply with my opinion, but only if I get promises from certain people on this board that they won’t follow it up at all.
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!
You can share your opinion if you wish, but not if you do not want to discuss it. The point of a forum is discussion, so asking for a promise “not to follow up” is contrary to that aspect. Please do not misunderstand me. I am not here to ridicule someone else’s opinion, but if I do disagree, I will state it alongside my reasons for doing so. I am more interested in the facts and their logical conclusion than angering a fellow forum member.
Some of the points you raised pii, like whatever happened to Ryu-Oh, seem to me to be due simply to the story going in different directions than it was originally intended, which happens frequently enough in other shows. It’s certainly annoying to be sure, but its often to be expected in long running series, especially when the creative team turned over as radically as it did after OVA 1.
I can accept that since Hayashi and Hasegawa left the project after the first series. This is more reason I am hyped for the novel translation project.
As for what I’ll call the “second tier” of your points, those dealing with actual plot discrepancies, I think can best be explained by Mr. Kajishima
Basically, Kajishima doesn’t sweat the little stuff in favor of getting to the end of the story, which is maddening from a fan’s perspective, and is largely why nailing down one true listing of what is “canon” is such a uniquely troublesome problem in Tenchi fandom.
If he wants to change events or facts, why not just make another continuity? The story could be tightened up and streamlined into Kajishima’s vision in an offshoot, rather than introducing continuity errors into the original series.
Finally, the “third tier” of your points, those dealing with the changes made to the characters’ personalities, such as Kagato being afraid of Seto, and Ryoko and Ayeka rolling over for Airi, Seto, and Noike, is where most of my frustration comes from. The only thing I can think of is that so much time had passed in real life between OVAs that the characters were simply not the same people in the mind of the writers and show runners as they were back in the 90’s. This led to a lot resentment, I think justly so, on the part of fans who had come to know and love every aspect of the characters, and were now seeing them through the eyes of a creator who’s interpretations had drifted quite significantly in the intervening years.
And, this is more reason for a separate continuity. For example, series 1 Ryoko had an image of being fearless and strong, with a warm heart for Tenchi and merciless to those who would threaten him. However, series 2 and 3 paint her differently: full of bluster, but easily intimated by people with a faction of her power. Series 1 Ryoko would not have stood for the events of series 3 episode 2. Likely, she would have drawn her sword and threatened death like she did with Mayuka in Manatsu no EveHexagram of Love
In “Here Comes Jurai, Part 2”, D3 goes to wipe Clay and Zero’s memories. Why is this, considering that in series 3, Washu is fully realized as a goddess and fully aware of Tokimi’s existence? Would knowledge of Tokimi’s location already be known to her?
I don’t think that’s done because of Washuu – I think it’s more or less to keep Clay from being a pest again by meddling any further into the Choushin’s business. Maybe. >shrug<
I was thinking less of Clay and more of Zero. When Ryoko and Zero merge, Ryoko would then know of Tokimi and her location. How would that knowledge interfere, since Washu could likely explain and perhaps pacify Ryoko’s concerns?
In episode 1, how can Ryo-Ohki get lost? As Washu said, she is the computer unit of a battleship. Also in series 2, Ryo-Ohki is shown able to levitate. Couldn’t she simply float up to see where she is, or go into space and find her home by herself?
I had wondered about that sequence, but I think it’s just that she’s overcome by the situation and doesn’t think really rationally. She’s suddenly alone, and like a little kid she doesn’t stop to calm down and think rationally. (Well, she is
After chatting with some fellows, there are several reasons why this would not work. First, as stated before, she is a computer unit of a battleship. She has seen combat more frightening than an unfamiliar wilderness, so her getting overcome is unlikely. Second, she is mindlinked to both Ryoko and Washu. Ryoko could have sent a telepathic message to Ryo-Ohki showing her the way, rather than going herself. Equally, so could Washu. Third, Ryo-Ohki multitasks heavily, as evidenced by the battle with Chobimaru
Moreover, I think there is an underlying question here. Ryo-Ohki indeed has the form of a child, but does she have the mind of a child, or an animal, or a computer unit? She has aspects of all three, but which is actually her, if any?
Furthermore, Ryoko and Washu share a mindlink, where Washu knows about Ryoko’s deep desires for Tenchi without any effort. In fact, Washu compares this link to the one between Ryoko and Ryo-Ohki in series 1 episode 6. Also, Ryoko is seen summoning Ryo-Ohki from a distance of miles in series 1 episode 2. However, in series 2 episode 3, Washu needs some elaborate device to read Ryo-Ohki’s mind. Why, particularly as series 3 episode 1 has Ryoko directly upload the way home into Ryo-Ohki’s head? Even then, why does Ryoko have to be right next to Ryo-Ohki to do that?
In episode 2, Noike is introduced as the adoptive daughter of Seto. Why would Seto adopt a fairly unremarkable GP officer, considering all the scheming that went into her proposed adoption of Mashisu? Even if she was privy to Noike’s contact with Clay, Zed, and Kagato-F(emale), why install her into the Masaki household on Earth? She seems far more of a threat than a boon.
I’d guess it’s because she’s also adopted. She seems to have a thing for adopting people, and she also has a habit of deciding some things on impulse.
Where is Seto’s adoption mentioned in the three OVA series? As for adoptions, she only adopts Noike and offers to adopt Mashisu in series 3. Mashisu at least has reason to be adopted, to marry Misao. What is Noike’s reason?
As far as deciding matters on impulse, that seems a poor trait for someone who is supposedly running Jurai by proxy, as stated by Ayeka in series 3 episode 2. After all, a snap decision could easily land the Juraian people into conflict with any of the other political bodies in the universe. See A Song of Ice and FireGame of Thrones
Why would Ryoko, or even Kagato, be intimated by Airi or Seto? Ryoko is notorious for sacking and crushing Jurai’s defenses, and Kagato is known as the “Ruins Buster” and is eternally wanted by the GP. I have a hard time seeing either cowering in fear of a single Juraian woman.
I think it’s more because of how crazy she is. I mean… Seto is pretty well a nutcase when it comes to either manipulating people or killing pirates. Ryoko was in a somewhat-stable house situation when she reacts to hearing Seto was coming, so that’s understandable, but Kagato… hm. I guess even insane, ruins-busting, people-killing, planet-busting organists don’t enjoy run-ins with people equally insane? That’s what I’d guess.
Insanity is less the point, but rather power. Where in the three OVA series has Seto shown herself to conquer, crush, and destroy entire cultures for her whims? Kagato is first shown plowing through a GP blockade effortlessly. Ryoko is first shown battling Yosho in flashbacks and destroying Tenchi’s high school. Seto has not been shown anywhere close to this, so why would either be worried about her?
Moreover, why does Noike have Kyoko, a top-secret upgraded third generation tree? Presumably, this would be because of Seto, which emphasizes the question of why Seto would be interested in a no-name GP officer.
Er… more perspective on how haphazard Seto is in her management of people and resources? I dunno.
Mismanagement would be more reason to question why and how Seto could be secretly running Jurai.
Why does Nobuyuki try to kiss passionately his own daughter? That seems very inappropriate, considering he is soon to marry Rea.
He’s a tease. He’s a perv. He’s a bit of a troll.
Moreover, why does Airi try to kiss passionately her grandson, with her husband standing just a few meters away?
‘Cause he’s Tenchi, of course!
Nobuyuki knows his first wife is dead and should know his daughter’s face well enough. Moreover, as someone who is agonizing over how to explain to his son about his pending marriage, it seems ridiculous for him to pervert himself over his daughter in front of his son.
As for your response for Airi trying to kiss Tenchi, how does him being “Tenchi” make it acceptable for her to act in that way? Again, her husband is standing right there. Even in a close family, that is not acceptable.
If so many children of Juraian lineage live on and leave Earth, why is Earth still regarded as “developing” or “protected”?
Two reasons: First to give the Juraians some privacy, and secondly because it hasn’t made (public) contact with other planets. Again, just my speculation.
I could accept that.
Noike states that the only first generation tree was Azusa’s Kirito, but wasn’t Funaho a first generation tree?
Haven’t seen that ep. in a while, but are you sure she’s not saying that Kirito is the only remaining active
Actually, you are correct. She does say “ship”, not “tree”.
Why is the Kuramitsu family so ready to go to war over Mihoshi? Admittedly, if Kuramitsu Mikami is so close to Seto, couldn’t a more diplomatic solution be given? Also, why is Marshall Kuramitsu Minami cackling like a lunatic and not listening to reason?
More speculation on my side here, but I’d bet that just because Mikami and Seto get along doesn’t mean that the rest of the two families do. Heck, the Kuramitsu family doesn’t agree on practically anything within themself! (well, unless Mitoto is in the room, that is. >_< )
Controlling the family is not really the issue, though both show significant control over the two families. Look at the +1 special, where Mikami and Seto essentially clean up the entire situation in the presence of Tokimi. Notice that Azusa and empresses are nowhere to be found, despite this would likely be in his jurisdiction.
Why does no one notice that Noike is purposefully monopolizing Tenchi, to the point that she seemingly has poisoned him for the purpose of ingratiating herself to him and the household?
And here is where every OVA3-hater (not saying you are one) ends up wanting to cut my head off. ‘Cause I just don’t see it. I really don’t see Noike monopolizing at all… I just see someone who’s nature is to keep things organized and neat, and nobody in the house puts forth *enough* effort to stop her. (Japanese politeness and all that Bull…er, Red. Red Bull. Yeah.)
Note: no need to reply to this one. I’m probably wrong, but it’s a moot point by now. T_T
Unfortunately, I must disagree. Noike sets the other cast members to work in the house, away from Tenchi. She then spends a significant amount of time alone with Tenchi under the pretext of nursing him. Now, I could accept that the Kagato-F part of her made him ill and the Noike part is doing good. However, even then, the Kagato-F side is played as a naive child, which makes this less likely. While I will agree that she is an organized person, she is still new to the household and readily takes command of affairs without asking permission or if others would mind her actions. That is not polite in the least.
The “effort” issue likely speaks more to how the rest of the cast have had their characterization changed, as Chuck said above. The series 1 cast would likely not allow this stranger to begin ruling their home without discussion or argument.
In episode 4, Seto says that Yosho sent word after Ayeka and Sasami had left to find him. Couldn’t she have contacted Ryu-Oh or the Guardians while the girls were in stasis to turn them around?
Bets Ayeka’s word is law on her ship. Logs’ prime directive? “Obey the girl with the whip.”
Ayeka is in statis and would not know until she returned to Jurai, and I would think her elders’ word would supercede the word of a “runaway girl”, as Seto said. Also, Ayeka is never depicted with a whip in the three OVA series, let alone dominant after series 1.
In episode 5, only Sasami’s combat is shown. Why not any of the others?
Because we already know everyone else is a badass, but seeing Sasami get down and kick around a GP officer is some awesome news!
(And, speculatively, budget and episode-time constraints.)
As nice as Sasami fighting is, Ayeka has not been seen in combat since series 1 episode 6, and not in her combat attire since series 2 episode 5. This was an opportunity to showcase how mighty the characters are and how they handle a threat. It was disappointing to see all the confrontations essentially handwaved to mere dialogue footnotes. Also, considering everyone was pidgeonholed in the battle with Zed, this is even more disheartening. Even Tenchi and Ryoko, who did act against Zed, were pushed aside. The only actual combative actions in series 2 or 3 are the following:
series 2 episode 3: Ryoko blocking the humanoid Masu
As to budgetary constraints, the afterwards of Kajishima’s doujins have discussed “misappropriated funds”. As to episode length limitations, I reference Geminar
How is Ryo-Ohki both combating the Chobimaru and at the party aboard Tsunami?
101 crystals. I think the main one, the control crystal, is the one on the Tsunami – that’s why she’s reacting so much to the combat and why Washuu makes sure to keep her stable. (ie, gives carrot.)
I could accept that, given the multitasking comment above.
Since Tsunami is there, why is she not stopping the combat? While this does take dramatic emphasis off Misao and Mashisu, it seems unnecessary.
Hmm… maybe she wants Misao to confess, as well?
Their romance could be approached far more naturally, rather than staging the destruction of an expensive spaceship and rigging explosions. The drama seems artificial and unnecessary.
Who is the figure of light talking to Tenchi? While it seems to be Tenchi’s character design, his identity is not explicitly noted.
Generally, fans have considered him to be Tenchi-Kami. (This makes for an odd conundrum, though! Is God-Tenchi is somehow not confined in the human Tenchi? And does that mean that He has been watching all this happen and only comes down to interact with the situation at that one point when human Tenchi is overwhelmed by rising through the 11 dimensions? Curious, indeed!)
Unfortunately, this is still fan speculation, not fact. This being is not mentioned before the episode, nor after. In the +1 special, Tenchi still commands only three contiguous Light Hawk Wings, though he reconfigures them to have six wing-like extensions. I believe it is safe to assume that the being of light is connected to Tenchi since the character design is essentially his. However, the being could easily be a separate entity, perhaps one of the beings experimenting on the three goddesses, as Ryoko speculates in series 3 episode 6. It is not made clear in the episode.
Similarly, why does Misaki have the Counteractor aspect? She has never demonstrated any ability or predilection of this persona or power before. Even then, how is “other Tenchi” able to pacify and remove her?
AstroNerdBoy has a translation of an unanimated scene from ep. 6 here.
As for Tenchi pacifying her, I think it’s a Tenchi-Kami thing. I’d even go as far a speculating that it’s the first time Tenchi really connects with his godhood.
Reading that link and the translation on the forum
At the end of the episode, Noike and Fuku appear in the past, changing Mihoshi’s note as Zed had. While this does ensure the same sequence of events up to episode 5, Noike mentions that this will ensure that Fuku will meet Seina. How so?
Possibly… if it weren’t for the Chobimaru incident… the GP wouldn’t have bothered to try to recruit Tenchi? I dunno.
The GP do not attempt to recruit Tenchi, so I believe you mean Seina. I could see the GP seeing Ryo-Ohki destroy Chobimaru
While Nobuyuki mentioned that he found Masaki Kiyone’s (and Airi’s) script was in bad taste, why did he, among others, proceed with her black comedy? Considering Tenchi’s temperment, that seemed in very poor taste, as evidenced by Tenchi’s own reaction.
Dying wife’s wishes, I guess. It was her work, her gift, so it’d be pretty disrespectful to her *not* to use it as she asked.
I would hope that Nobuyuki would respect his son’s feelings enough to ease him into it, as he said he should have in retrospect when he and Tenchi are talking on the pier. Moreover, everyone seems to accept that she is a lunatic. There could have been a compromise that would not have spurred Tenchi to storm out.
Who is Kasumi, and where is she mentioned in the three OVA series?
This is probably the root of your hangup, piiguy.
Kajishima’s continuity encompasses more that the anime. Those True Tenchi Novels
series 1 Ryoko had an image of being fearless and strong,
But not as strong as Katsuhito (episode 3).
However, series 2 and 3 paint her differently:
Hello, Zero!
And, this is more reason for a separate continuity.
If you wish, you can consider his continuity from OVA 1 as separate as from Hasegawa’s offshoot and the manga, already.
huuuoohhhboy
*subsequent reviewing of thread
Mkay, good so far, people playing nice. You all make me proud.
Aaaaaand to save myself from some typing for the time being (instead of addressing individual points):
Included in recent posts are a lot of questions (understandably) from fans over the years to the tune of “why/how was Misaki/Counteractor swooned into submission by Tenchi-kami?” and “why is his own grandmother sexually attracted to him?” (and more recently “why does he sire children with the beloved mascot character?” oh, right, so far it’s only “what if?” so some backpedaling could yet still be implemented in the future). After several years of intensive study in this fandom (yes, intensiveslightlyhow?stomaching
Because Kami-Tenchi! It’s a joke at this point, and I would even go so far as to say Kajishima now intends for it to be that way–that, or his ego really has gone that
Like everyone else, that’s just my opinion and my peace. Ignore it, respond, agree or don’t, it’s all good in the hood. 
I skimmed, but you’re wrong on this one Pii:
The GP do not attempt to recruit Tenchi, so I believe you mean Seina. I could see the GP seeing Ryo-Ohki destroy Chobimaru and see it as a superior ship, thus making them want their own (i.e. Fuku). However, this circles back to how Washu would not create another.
The GP “did” try to recruit Tenchi, it was Amane’s fault that she thought Seina was Tenchi and gave him the GP brochure/pad/beacon.
She was there on official business to recruit him so the GP would have claim on Tenchi’s power.
Unfortunately, you are mistaken. I rewatched the first four episodes of GXP“Is Tenchi-kun training you hard?”entire exchangeGXP
Who is Kasumi, and where is she mentioned in the three OVA series?
This is probably the root of your hangup, piiguy.
Kajishima’s continuity encompasses more that the anime. Those True Tenchi Novels
If one has to goto an outside media to fill rectify an issue with the story, the story is incomplete as presented. Unfortunately, that means this issue it is still a plothole for the anime. Also, as these novels have not been translated and are printed in limited numbers, these facts are not well-known, even to all Japanese fans. While big franchises such as Star WarsStar Trek
series 1 Ryoko had an image of being fearless and strong,
But not as strong as Katsuhito (episode 3).
I do not see how that is relevant. Kagato was stronger than she was, at least when holding back for Ayeka, and still fought him. Her strength is not just physical. She is also strong-willed. I note again in series 1 episode 6 where she does not back down even after being turned to stone. Even in Hexagram of Love
However, series 2 and 3 paint her differently:
Hello, Zero!
The “Zero changes Ryoko” argument only holds after series 2 episode 5, and I am not counting Zero’s impersonation as “Ryoko”. In series 1 episodes 2-3, Ryoko is not her usual brash self. In episode 1, they are taking care of Taro, so Ryoko is understandably more subdued, presumably for the baby, reminiscing about Tenchi as an infant. However, episode 2, she gets roped into peeling potatoes. Why would she do that for a stranger when she does not help around her own home? Why would she follow the orders of an old woman she barely knows? In episode 3, Ryoko is mainly a farce, getting smashed in the head with tanuki statues, slapped in the face with books, and running headlong into forcefields. She is comedy relief, not the battle-hardened woman from series 1. She even gets outdone by the humanoid masu, who blasts her aside so Ryo-Ohki can take the spotlight.
And, this is more reason for a separate continuity.
If you wish, you can consider his continuity from OVA 1 as separate as from Hasegawa’s offshoot and the manga, already.
I already do, but I was meaning something more drastic. If Masaki Kajishima wants to rewrite series 1, rather than retconning it in later series, I propose he just start over. He could redo the first series as he wanted it, rather than pollute the original with plotholes, contradictions, and dei ex machinae. That way, everyone wins. Those who like series 1 can have it, isolated and pristine, and those who like Kajishima’s work will have exactly what he intended. After all, that seems to be what Hasegawa did with her second and third novels. I eagerly await the next translation as it appears to be a retelling of series 1 episodes 2-5.
And, this is more reason for a separate continuity.
If you wish, you can consider his continuity from OVA 1 as separate as from Hasegawa’s offshoot and the manga, already.
I already do,
Good, you’re satisfied, then.
plotholes, contradictions, and dei ex machinae.
You keep using these words; I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
Those who like series 1 can have it, isolated and pristine, and those who like Kajishima’s work will have exactly what he intended.
It’s already that way, if you care to think of it as such. Aaand it seems you do.
Enjoy the show.
If you wish, you can consider his continuity from OVA 1 as separate as from Hasegawa’s offshoot and the manga, already.
I already do,
Good, you’re satisfied, then.
Those who like series 1 can have it, isolated and pristine, and those who like Kajishima’s work will have exactly what he intended.
It’s already that way, if you care to think of it as such. Aaand it seems you do.
Actually, I am not satisfied. Again, I believe Kajishima’s next move would be best to reboot the OVA continuity to make the story continuous and however he wants it, rather than introducing conflicting events and information.
plotholes, contradictions, and dei ex machinae.
You keep using these words; I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
Very well then, let us well define our terms.
Plot hole
Proposed plot holes:
OVA 1
In episode 1, the tree Funaho sends a message into space. To whom was that message sent? This is unlikely Ryu-Oh
OVA 2
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Whatever happened to Ryu-Oh? She was planted in the core unit in “Night Before the Carnival”, but she is never seen again in the entire series.
OVA 3
In episode 1, how can Ryo-Ohki get lost?
Contradiction
Proposed contradictions:
OVA 2
In episode 6, Empress Funaho complains that Yosho had not sent word in 700 years. Does this not contradict Seto’s statements in series 3 about a secret communique?
Deus ex machina
Proposed dei ex machinae:
[tab=30]OVA 1: Tenchi’s creation of the Light Hawk Wings when all others are defeated and he is about to die.
[tab=30]OVA 2: Tenchi’s creation of the Light Hawk Wings when he, Ayeka, and Mihoshi are about to die in the Shunga
[tab=30]OVA 3: the being of light who speaks with Tenchi and pacifies Counteractor-Misaki.
Please explain your reasoning as to how any of these claims are not valid.
the answer at the end of the day to such matters is “because he’s Tenchi.” As a character, Tenchi has gone from likeable underdog to ‘that lucky somagun’ before arriving to the place we find ourselves today. In a world with humanoid aliens and mysticism intertwined with fantastic technology, the most difficult element for me as a fan to buy is Tenchi’s unconscious, hypnotic pull over anything female (stomaching
Because Kami-Tenchi! It’s a joke at this point, and I would even go so far as to say Kajishima now intends for it to be that way–that, or his ego really has gone that
It is a sad truth, to be honest. Tenchi himself has also had significant character decay like the girls have. Perhaps a nice change of pace would be to have say Ryoko or Ayeka be the lead in a series, focus on their designs and schemes, rather than Tenchi or the household as a whole. After all, Tenchi Muyo! in Love 2
Proposed contradictions:OVA 2
In episode 6, Empress Funaho complains that Yosho had not sent word in 700 years. Does this not contradict Seto’s statements in series 3 about a secret communique?
“secret communique”- doesn’t imply Funaho would have received a copy.
Washu says she will not create another Ryoko, or Ryo-Ohki-like warship by extension, and will not help anyone to do so. Doesn’t this rule out Fuku’s creation in GXP?
Time has passed. Tenchi asked her to help his buddy, Seina, in the GP.
Azusa had an issue with Yosho about him having a child with a Terran, but in series 3, he is married to Airi, who moreover states that she is Masaki Kiyone’s mother. Is this not a contradiction?
He could have married Airi after she died. 9+ months later–> Kiyone!
Here’s where we’re going to have fundamental differences, pii. You want only the anime to be the story, and it’s not.
P.S.- Anyway, it’s been 9+ years, so I’m going back to my post on page 1. o7 
Without referring to the background info you refuse to acknowledge…
I acknowledge that the novels and doujins exist. That is not the issue. As a work of film, the OVA continuity is incomplete as presented and has noted storytelling flaws. One should not need to have a concordance or supplementary document to enjoy and fully understand a work of film. The MatrixInception
Evangelion
Here’s where we’re going to have fundamental differences, pii. You want only the anime to be the story, and it’s not.
Very well then. The anime is not the complete story. Therefore, the anime is an incomplete work.
Proposed contradictions:
OVA 2
In episode 6, Empress Funaho complains that Yosho had not sent word in 700 years. Does this not contradict Seto’s statements in series 3 about a secret communique?
“secret communique”- doesn’t imply Funaho would have received a copy.
Considering how close Yosho is shown to be with his mother, sending a message to Seto without sending one to Funaho seems out of character.
Washu says she will not create another Ryoko, or Ryo-Ohki-like warship by extension, and will not help anyone to do so. Doesn’t this rule out Fuku’s creation in GXP?
Time has passed. Tenchi asked her to help his buddy, Seina, in the GP.
If GXP episode 17 is to be accepted, then only two years have passed since Tenchi released Ryoko. Thus, Washu would have gone back on her word to Funaho in under that time, not decades or centuries. Moreover, no one, not even Tenchi, says that he asked Washu to construct Kamidake II
Azusa had an issue with Yosho about him having a child with a Terran, but in series 3, he is married to Airi, who moreover states that she is Masaki Kiyone’s mother. Is this not a contradiction?
He could have married Airi after she died. 9+ months later–> Kiyone!
I could accept that speculation, though it is a missing detail that gives one pause.
A significant point is made early in the series that Seina’s enlistment into the GP should have been forbidden. (ep 3) Admittedly, Seto waves this off, supposedly by means of her authority and association with Mikami and Airi. However, his status is flaunted by Elma (ep 5). Moreover, Seiryo harps on Terrans the whole time. If Seina’s origin is so taboo, why do they throw it in people’s faces?
Continuity (Overall)
In OVA series 1, Earth is regarded as remote and isolated, hence why Yosho and Ayeka were stranded. However, the GP cargo ship (ep 2) and Mikagami (ep 3) can contact Earth without problem. While only two years have passed since Ryoko was released, Kiriko already has a career with the GP and visits her family on Earth. (ep 4) This seems a contradiction in one of a following ways: the development of Earth, the isolation of Earth, or how ingrained the Masaki family is on Earth.
Continuity (GXP only)
Amane left an item in a bag for Seina to give to Tenchi. (ep 1) He leaves it with a note, but what is in the bag? Does anyone have a translation of the note?
Missed Opportunities
The pirates have grappler ships like Outlaw Star
Dei ex Machinis
Mikagami (ep 2)
Now, while I have been very critical of both OVA series 3 and GXP, I do have some parts of the story that I did enjoy.
Fun
NB, Nabeshin’s avatar, is hilarious when he is not being an insufferable lecher. He is a whipping boy and the comedy relief, until he loses himself in the latter third of the series.
At the GP Academy, there is a landmark known as Washu’s Pore. (ep 7) What did she do there? Is this the crater left by the attacking Masu mentioned in OVA series 2 episode 3?
From the Wiki and FAQ for ease of reply, though I think if you read the novel Washu, you’d get more.
Afterward, a heartbroken Washu planned to go to Planet Seniwa to take her child back, but upon arriving, decided not to take him away from the only home he knew. After deciding not to take him away, Washu, with Naja’s assistance, created at least two children in his place using a powerful species known as Masu, which was also in an effort to create a being capable of wielding the power of her mysterious gems. Unfortunately, both children died in an accident which most likely resulted in “Washu’s Pore,” a huge crater at the Academy
For somewhere around 15,000 years (give or take a few hundred), the two taught, researched Washu’s gems, blew a large hole in the Academy’s landscape (“Washu’s Pore”), and pondered ancient artifacts from a prehistoric-civilization (“The Ancients” as denoted by AstroNerdBoy) that had once spanned the galaxy. During this time, Naja and Washu were attempting to create a being that could use the potential power of Washu’s three gems.
Two precursor children were created (who died, cause unknown)(2) in their attempts to create a being who could control the power of the gems. Then, approximately 5000+ years ago, while researching ancient artifacts on planet K1190, Naja herself was presumed killed in a pirate attack (though importantly, her body was never found). It is unknown if Washu was there or not. This is where Akara Naja disappears from history.
[*]Washu constructed Fuku, a new battleship given to Seina for his use in the GP. (ep 13) This seems a violation of her agreement with Funaho in OVA series 2 episode 6. However, she also gave the ship the mentality of an infant, which is not very useful for a weapon. (ep 15) Considering the later hijack and acquisition of Fuku by Tarant and the Galaxy Army (ep 23), did Washu believe this was a good course of action?
Washu stated in her talk with Seina that she was an infant now but if take care of she’s grow to be very powerful. This is simply her methodology in creating beings that have free will and are allowed to grow for better or worse on their own, hands off. The same lack of parenting chops can be seen in Ryoko and Ryo-Ohki. She has extremes and little middle ground. Did Washu know what was going to happen to Fuku? Absolutely, as this is her post OVA3 all knowing version. So in some respect, you could say she knew Fuku would also live through it, even if it hurt, and that’s chaos 101 for the regular Tenchi-verse.
[*]Mihoshi supposedly is always in space. (ep 17) However, OVA series 2 and 3 shows her laying around the Masaki house sleeping most of the time.
It’s been established she is often tired from working so hard and comes there to rest. Plus there’s been discussion in the past that her hair bow that acts as sort of a limiter, along with her past whatever-it-was incident may be artificially draining her.
[*]Why does Amane know so many secrets about the Masaki household? (ep 17) Is Mihoshi that much of a gossip?
It’s Mihoshi. See OVA 3’s voice mail to her brother, which are about as air-brained as our dimension can handle.
[*]Why is Ryoko flirting with Seina in front of Tenchi? (ep 17) She has been portrayed as being wholeheartedly in love with Tenchi. Why would she act this way?
Conjecture – Maybe Ryoko, who’s been getting the short end (or any at all) of the stick, since OVA 2, now kicked to the curb with Ayeka by Noike, is trying to incite some jealousy from all powerful stick in the mud Tenchi?
[*]Anyone can enter a royal ship if the tree gives permission. (ep 21) Since Mizuki has the mentality of a child, doesn’t this put state secrets in the hands of a very irresponsible entity?
Ships, even Mizuki, are well older than Humans. There are many trees within the genesis tree Tenju. Jurai doesn’t particular seem to care about state secrets too much, as they as individuals are bonded with the trees and protected by a higher dimensional being.
Trees also seem to carry the ability to see the heart of a person or as with the communication, be slightly telepathic. It stands to extrapolate that they can sense whether a person has evil intent or not. Furthermore, with the use of LHWs creating great landscapes inside the ship, it would be reasonable that an attacker could be contained or obliterated easier inside, than without.
The counter point to this would be Tenchi in OVA 1. However, he both had Sasami in hand, as well as the master key by the time he was discovered. It just means the tree itself was depicted at that time as not being alert, or didn’t care about Tenchi as it knew he was partially Juraian.
[*]Also, Mizuki is shown to have the ability to speak. (ep 21) Is this unique to her, since the other trees (Funaho, Ryu-Oh, etc.) have not been shown to have this ability?
Verbally speak no. But as mentioned before, Zinv and several others have been demonstrated to speak, even Mitsuki’s tree to Azusa I believe after her death. The first three generation of Royal Tree’s are all sentient beings. So they would all be able to speak until the 4th generation.
[*]The Zinv mecha merges with Fuku, forms Light Hawk Wings, pulls the Daidalos
LHW’s have a variety of capabilities, some being used simultaneously, and Idol / Zinv should be capable of hosting 3 LHWs on their own, plus whatever the Kamidake II and Fuku’s power gave the Idol. Z used LHWs to counter Tenchi and pull off other feats. Subspace access, gravity manipulation, and matter creation and conversion have been shown in almost every Kajishima series Tenchi related thus far. This is really nothing new.
Missed Opportunities
The Zinv mecha only appeared for two episodes. (ep 23-24) The Zinv, Amane’s combat uniform (ep 19), Kiriko’s tree Mizuki (ep 20), and Azusa’s father Kazuki (ep 22) are clear allusions to Dual!
Tree merging doesn’t seem to be a regular thing. The fact that the two queens could combine their ships was a rare event. If anything the only other precedent we have was Ryo-Ohki with Ayeka’s tree, since the base designs were compatible due to Washu.
So technically as long as the three entities themselves (Idol, Fuku, Mizuki) were calm or doing the linking process correctly, (one could assume merging with Idol was easier being a 1st gen), it would seem entirely possible to link all three. The hybrid of that would most likely be the most powerful, even surpassing Azusa’s ship.
I was wondering what everyone thought of the fan theory that Najas spirit is in Seto like Kagato’s female side (Najas DNA) was in Noike in OAV3?
Volume 10.
I believe it, esp. the way Washu and Seto interacted in OVA 3.
