Tenchi Masaki Kami Tenchi

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    ChaudSept
    Member
    Hi !

    I think you understood pretty well what happenned.

    Kami Tenchi is exactly what the Chousins are looking for, a being superior to them, superior too everything, like THE GOD.

    I believe that Tenchi & Kami Tenchi are the same person.

    I don’t really know where to find the interviews of Kajishima but i found a lot of informations on the Wikia of Tenchi Muyo ! (Beware of the spoilers)

    I’m sure someone will post something with more details.

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      Crazed
      Moderator
      none
      First off, welcome to the forum, Lupin!

      As far as “Kami Tenchi” goes there is no explanation as to what exactly “he” or “it” is anywhere. “Kami Tenchi” is just a name that was given to the figure in the third OVA by the fans and is not an official title. Also, as to whether or not the figure in the third OVA is this “higher power” that the Chousin are looking for is debatable. Sure it’s implied to be that way, but all that happens is “he” or “it” starts to break the various dimensional barriers which is just an unintended effect of the figure being present at all. We never actually get to see any of its power at work. The Chousin have to fix everything that happens with their own powers so it’s hard to say that the figure we see is more powerful than them when at the end of it all everything still needed the Chousin’s power to be resolved. Again, it seems that was what they were going for but there just isn’t enough information about it to definitively say one way or another that “Kami Tenchi” truly exists or not.

      I would be careful if you try to source anything from the Tenchi Wiki. Some of what’s up there is credible but a lot of it is not. It either has no source, is sourced incorrectly, or has someones opinion so deeply woven into an article that the information given is being skewed to various degrees based on that persons opinion. So if you do look over there for anything take what you see with a grain of salt.

      wwwwhhhhoooo
      Moderator
      none

      Lupin879 wrote:

      Good morning I saw the Tenchi muyo ryo ohki but I want to know Tenchi Masaki is a kami or an avatar of kami tenchi ? Are there some interview of the author that explain the relashionship

      Because in the film it looks like Tenchi Masaki is the being that the chousin are looking for from many years

      Could you help me to understand this?

      In answer to your question, yes, via OVA 3 it is revealed that Tenchi is what the Chousin were looking for (which means they’re neither omnipotent nor omniscient, unless the technicality of dimensions is taken into consideration which still by definition would not be all knowing or all powerful if there is anything beyond their scope). I’m pretty sure “Tenchi-kami” kind of followed soon after, a moniker quickly given unto Tenchi via fans but it’s accurate: Kami=Tenchi, Tenchi=Kami, the source of Tenchi’s LHW all along (even though Z somehow ends up with his own through other means).

      Anonymous
      Guest

      Lupin879 wrote:

      This is a summary of what was revealed in the Kajishima-sensei interview:

      Source for this interview?

      Nobuyuki
      Participant
      The classic one.

      That passage is on ANB’s FAQ.

      Anonymous
      Guest

      Nobuyuki wrote:

      The classic one.

      That passage is on ANB’s FAQ.

      Tenchi is never referred to anywhere in that interview as a Kami.

      So then where is ANB’s source for referring to Tenchi as a God (Kami)? Because I don’t remember him ever referred to as a Kami in the Japanese language track.

      ChaudSept
      Member
      It seems that the ANB page is just an analysis of Kajishima’s interview.

      No official statement then ?

      Kerbs
      Participant
      I guess I just assumed, if he’s stronger than the Choushin… blush1
      wwwwhhhhoooo
      Moderator
      none

      Lupin879 wrote:

      This is a interview of the author so i believe that Tenchi is kami infact when the chousin restart the universe Tenchi have six light hawk wing so he has his power no from an other person

      Six? I haven’t OVA 3’d in a while, when did that happen?

      ChaudSept
      Member
      At the very begining of the last episode (07). Tenchi has to block a massive shot of the World Class SpaceShip to protect the earth.

      And we can see 6 LHW. I think they are the same ones as Z !

      http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/09/1424817513-6.png" />

      EDIT : After a brief check : The LHW of Z have the same shape, but he can create only 5.

      evilpii
      Participant
      none
      Chaud, I’m actually glad you got this screencap rather than me going to find it. blush1

      ChaudSept wrote:

      At the very begining of the last episode (07). Tenchi has to block a massive shot of the World Class SpaceShip to protect the earth.

      http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/09/1424817513-6.png" />

      However, notice that there are only three contiguous pieces: the ring in the center, the ring side with three wing-like protrusions, and the left side with three wing-like protrusions. Hence, Tenchi still only has three Light Hawk Wings, despite the fact they are configured to appear like six. Think of it like a caterpillar puffing up to look like a snake.. The display looks more impressive than it really is.

      Lupin879 wrote:

      This is a interview of the author so i believe that Tenchi is kami infact when the chousin restart the universe Tenchi have six light hawk wing so he has his power no from an other person


      Nobuyuki wrote:

      The classic one.


      Please show me where in the interview Masaki Kajishima states that Tenchi is a “kami”, a “god”, or anything of the like. Until I see hard evidence from the series itself or from a creator’s mouth, then “Kami Tenchi” is mere fan speculation at best, and fan fiction at worst.

      Keep in mind, Tsunami has ten Light Hawk Wings as of OVA series 1 episode 6. Even if Tenchi had six, that does not trump ten.

      ChaudSept
      Member

      Quote:

      However, notice that there are only three contiguous pieces: the ring in the center, the ring side with three wing-like protrusions, and the left side with three wing-like protrusions. Hence, Tenchi still only has three Light Hawk Wings, despite the fact they are configured to appear like six. Think of it like a caterpillar puffing up to look like a snake.. The display looks more impressive than it really is.

      Gosh, it is so easy to be fooled by details. You’re right and i’m wrong.

      But still, a “ring” is shameful representation for a wing..

      http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/09/1424824497-3-wings.png" />

      Just as you said, 3 ring just before the creation of the wing-like figures.

      http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/09/1424824576-5-wings.png" />

      But Z creates 5 specific wings. (Had to double check haha)

      I still like the idea of Tenchi being the super-god. Because it somehow ends the show ! The Chousins achieved their goal, the household is literally invicible. And in my opinion, Kajishima likes this idea of invicibility, look at Kenshi ! It all makes sense. I Mean Kenshi is totally over-powered and he has been raised by Tenchi & cie. All the characters of Kajishima are somewhat gods. (Didn’t watch Dual! & stuff yet… ).

      Maybe I’m just really influenced by everything i read blush1 . But i really like these “epic-over-powered” people. That’s why i cherish the OVA continuity.

      But finally, if this image is a true canon image : (from Shin Tenchi Muyo! Jurai)

      http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110718024307/tenchi/images/d/df/True_Tenchi_Novel_jurai.jpg" />

      How much LHW does she have ? I count more than 10 mmmm1

      evilpii
      Participant
      none

      ChaudSept wrote:

      Gosh, it is so easy to be fooled by details. You’re right and i’m wrong.

      No worries. I’ve been wrong many times, and my students like to remind me. blush1

      ChaudSept wrote:


      I still like the idea of Tenchi being the super-god. Because it somehow ends the show ! The Chousins achieved their goal, the household is literally invicible. And in my opinion, Kajishima likes this idea of invicibility, look at Kenshi ! It all makes sense. I Mean Kenshi is totally over-powered and he has been raised by Tenchi & cie. All the characters of Kajishima are somewhat gods. (Didn’t watch Dual! & stuff yet… ).

      Maybe I’m just really influenced by everything i read blush1 . But i really like these “epic-over-powered” people. That’s why i cherish the OVA continuity.


      Nothing is wrong with liking an idea, even a godlike character. After all, Superman has been written numerous times to be godlike, and he’s still quite popular. mmhmm1

      However, I will admit that I am not a fan of godlike characters usually. If the protagonist can wave his hand and resolve any problem, there is no conflict. There is no plot. How can a character develop if there are no trials to overcome, no day to save, no dilemma to understand?

      On the other hand, godlike villains are fantastic. They are a seemingly insurmountable obstacle, an impervious threat, a challenge that may never be met. Kagato seemed that way in OVA series 1 episode 6 as he seemed to have a solution to everything thrown at him by Ryoko, Ayeka, or Tenchi. To parallel Superman above, Darkseid can be a fantastic villain as a New God in Kirby’s Fourth World: evil ideology, extremely powerful, and a badass voice (Michael Ironside, Justice League / Justice League Unlimited).

      ChaudSept wrote:


      But finally, if this image is a true canon image : (from Shin Tenchi Muyo! Jurai)

      http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110718024307/tenchi/images/d/df/True_Tenchi_Novel_jurai.jpg" />

      How much LHW does she have ? I count more than 10 mmmm1


      I have enjoyed speculating about this image, though I have always thought Ryoko only had two Light Hawk Wings. Much like Tenchi in the image you posted, Chaud, I think what is being seen here are feather-like or wing-like protrusions that make two wings seem far more impressive. Sadly, we have never seen Ryoko’s speculated ability to create Light Hawk Wings, nor do I expect to see it in the near future. wtfisthis1

      Nobuyuki
      Participant

      ChaudSept wrote:

      No official statement then ?

      Nope, but as whoo said earlier, that’s pretty much what happened anyway.

      ChaudSept
      Member

      Quote:

      However, I will admit that I am not a fan of godlike characters usually. If the protagonist can wave his hand and resolve any problem, there is no conflict. There is no plot. How can a character develop if there are no trials to overcome, no day to save, no dilemma to understand?

      Absolutely, if the main caractere are all Deus-ex-machina-people, there’s no point of telling their stories. But, it’s on the very end that the Tenchi-family become “invicible”. Therefore, has an ending of the show, i found this quite relevant.

      I think we all agree that Kajishima’s universe is finished (almost ?), and if it is really finished then “kami-tenchi” makes a good end, to me.

      Quote:

      I have enjoyed speculating about this image, though I have always thought Ryoko only had two Light Hawk Wings. Much like Tenchi in the image you posted, Chaud, I think what is being seen here are feather-like or wing-like protrusions that make two wings seem far more impressive.

      I read the Sum-up of Jurai, and i was really disapointed that we don’t have anymore details about Ryoko. She is the cover of the book, yet we don’t learn anything. (Except she kick Azusa’s butt).

      Quote:

      Sadly, we have never seen Ryoko’s speculated ability to create Light Hawk Wings, nor do I expect to see it in the near future.

      Hum, OVA 2 : Here comes Jurai part 1. Funaho says that seeing all the damage that Ryoko caused to the planet, it is most likely the Gems can create the LHW. We never saw Ryoko do it, but if the gems can, she can as well.

      wwwwhhhhoooo
      Moderator
      none

      ChaudSept wrote:

      Hum, OVA 2 : Here comes Jurai part 1. Funaho says that seeing all the damage that Ryoko caused to the planet, it is most likely the Gems can create the LHW. We never saw Ryoko do it, but if the gems can, she can as well.

      A lot of mystery surrounding those wings, huh? 😉

      None of the following is sourced, btw, it’s just what I can remember from years in the fandom.

      The LHW’s were always enigmatic, and purposefully so; like the forging of Tolkien’s Silmarils or El-Hazard’s Eye of God, the ineffability of their exact origin and power made them quite iconic. So, time for some fun speculating!

      In OVA 1, we learn of their connection with Jurai, its trees (ships) and its people, particularly the Royal Family. Continuing from there, we learn about the matron deity of said nobility, Tsunami, who is also described as the first tree and the most powerful ship in the Jurain fleet. This “ship” can create ten lighthawk wings, something outside the capability of any other ship. So, the big revelation at the end of OVA 1 is that a person alone could somehow activate “the wings of the lighthawk” because we already knew royalty paired with a tree could conceivably do so (as Yosho did fighting Kagato).

      From here, it seems their connection is specifically with Jurai and ultimately with the progenitor Tsunami. But how did Tenchi do it without being bonded to a tree? His heritage seemed to be the answer. However, as it is eluded to in OVA 2 and revealed in OVA 3, neither connection to the royal family by blood nor a connection to a Jurain tree seem to be required to produce these manifestations (what’s more, GXP shows that not even the former is required for harnessing power, real or political, and any John Doe that pairs with the right tree will do just fine apparently). The mysterious character Z is not only able to produce them by his own power, as Tenchi can, but trumped the protagonist’s three with five wings total. He’s not connected to Tsunami in any way, nor is he Jurain. How is this possible? Well, we find out Tsunami has siblings, and Z is some sort of champion of Tokimi. So, did he pull power from Tsunami’s sister (similar type of power)? Actually, apparently not; apparently, lighthawk wings aren’t all that special after all, and our understanding of probability apply to them just as much as they hypothetically would to a room full of monkeys and typewriters (Heard of that one, right?.) Tokimi, utilizing a cosmic form of laissez faire, simply did nothing for long enough and again some John Doe was eventually born at the right time and inexplicably obtained lighthawk wings, once thought to be exclusively the power of the Chousin (or at least, the divine in some form).

      Why does the heredity theory of divine powers still exist? Well for one thing, we’ve all been influenced to speculate as such in general, but other than that, the presumptions about Ryoko and the gems and her own lighthawk abilities have strongly contributed. It has been asserted that Ryoko could boast up to ten lighthawk wings potentially (I don’t know if that gained steam solely from the cover image) if in possession of the gems, because she would be using them herself (not under the influence of Kagato), and thus as the daughter (not merely creation) of a ‘god’ (Washu), assuming the Chousin’s power does share some sibling similarities (which according to Lady Funaho in OVA 2, they apparently do, with the gems aiding in Yosho’s longevity on Earth), she would ‘grow into’ the godlike powers of her mother (if Washu decided to retire from being a know-it-all).

      But there is another, more concrete reason the heredity conceptualization still persists: War on Geminar.

      As anyone who has seen it knows, the conclusion of WoG involves Kenshi, Tenchi’s half brother, materializing his own lighthawk wing out of the blue. How is this possible? One might point to the seikishi’s pillar-sword, but I contend this is not the case: it acted as a catalyst, a physical and mental aid for Kenshi to harness the LHW into a sword; the rock itself was useless (whether it’s Tsunami telling Tenchi to “trust in your own power” or Yogurt telling Lonestar the secret of the schwartz, we all have pop culture precedence for the power of the placebo effect). So how did Kenshi do it? The series itself does not give us anything concrete. Did Tokimi herself intervene unbeknownst to everyone? Did Kenshi randomly obtain them as did Z? (On that note, I’m reminded of a theory I first heard from our own Dagon123 about the possibility that Kenshi is in fact a reincarnation of Z, done so out of Tokimi’s desire to have bonded with him as Washu had with Tenchi and Tsunami with Sasami.) Or did it in fact have something to do with the fact that Kenshi just happens to be related to Tenchi, the ‘Kami’ figure of Kajishima’s oeuvre (be it by blood or inter-dimensional nepotism)? Maybe Nobuyuki, the boys’ father, holds the secret? Perhaps another installment of Geminar, whether animated or written, could elaborate someday.

      ChaudSept
      Member

      Quote:

      However, as it is eluded to in OVA 2 and revealed in OVA 3, neither connection to the royal family by blood nor a connection to a Jurain tree seem to be required to produce these manifestations (what’s more, GXP shows that not even the former is required for harnessing power, real or political, and any John Doe that pairs with the right tree will do just fine apparently).

      The thing is, maybe the wings aren’t the “Jurai” power, but simply the “Chousins” power. Tsunami is a chousins therefore she can do wathever she wants, like creating 10 wings.

      Tenchi (and all the Jurai family probably) is gifted by Tsunami by bloodlink and he’s able to create the LHW. As you said Z is special because he is somehow Tokimi’s champion. Tokimi is a Chousin, therefore Z is blessed with the wings power.

      About Washu, the same thing happens. We kinda know that the Gems can create the wings and we also know that the gems was created by Chousin-Washu to “lock-up” her power (OVA3 6th or last episode probably). We can conclude that washu’s power = Tsunami’s = Tokimi’s Because they can all create the LHW. Or more like : Their power can.

      Speaking of GXP (watch out for spoiler) we know that the mecha (ep 24) is from a holy seed of Tsunami therefore we can easily conclude that there is some LHW power hiding somewhere… But have you noticed that it is only after the fusion of Fuku and the Mecha that the LHW appears ?

      Fuku + mecha = Washu + Tsunami = Light Hawk Wings

      Quote:

      (On that note, I’m reminded of a theory I first heard from our own Dagon123 about the possibility that Kenshi is in fact a reincarnation of Z, done so out of Tokimi’s desire to have bonded with him as Washu had with Tenchi and Tsunami with Sasami.) Or did it in fact have something to do with the fact that Kenshi just happens to be related to Tenchi, the ‘Kami’ figure of Kajishima’s oeuvre (be it by blood or inter-dimensional nepotism)? Maybe Nobuyuki, the boys’ father, holds the secret? Perhaps another installment of Geminar, whether animated or written, could elaborate someday.

      I read the theory you stated in the wikia of Tenchi Muyo, didn’t know the origin haha.

      Talking about Nobuyuki, i didn’t know that he was a real son of Yosho (from his first wedding, informations also read of the Wikia) therefore he has juraian blood within him. I think Kenshi’s ability to create the LHW is due to the bloodlink with Tsunami and/or Tokimi rather than his link with Tenchi.

      So much theory qt1

      Beyonder
      Member
      Kami tenchi…..isn’t “Omnipotent” by the very word he was created as a contest of the chousin that’s proves this entity didn’t exist before them.

      The Chousin=Low Tier Nigh-Omnipotent beings

      The Counter-Actor= Mid Tier Nigh-Omnipotent Being

      Kami Tenchi/Entity=High Tier Nigh-Omnipotent.

      Anonymous
      Guest

      Lupin879 wrote:

      You don’t understand nothing

      I see you image oh my god a fan bly from Marvel, the worst fan boy in all world

      Tenchi masaki is beyond the true omnipotence

      The chousin are true omnipotent infact their goal borns from the contraddiction of the omnipotence can an omnipotent create a being superior than omnipotent himself? Yes thechousin can and they created tenchi

      A omnipotent can be created i can’t understand the problem

      I Know you don’t see the film to say this thing

      Lets keep discussion civil please, do not attack others.

      Beyonder
      Member
      Lup that’s why you are wrong

      3 Omnipotent beings cant exist that’s a paradox

      3 beings then stated and shown to be Nigh-Omnipotent cant create a omnipotent being this proves the fan served “Kami Tenchi” ISNT a true omnipotent being just a mid tier nigh-omnipotent where the creators are Low tier.

      wwwwhhhhoooo
      Moderator
      none

      Lupin879 wrote:

      You don’t understand nothing

      I see you image oh my god a fan bly from Marvel, the worst fan boy in all world

      Tenchi masaki is beyond the true omnipotence

      The chousin are true omnipotent infact their goal borns from the contraddiction of the omnipotence can an omnipotent create a being superior than omnipotent himself? Yes thechousin can and they created tenchi

      A omnipotent can be created i can’t understand the problem

      I Know you don’t see the film to say this thing

      Beyonder wrote:

      Lup that’s why you are wrong

      3 Omnipotent beings cant exist that’s a paradox

      3 beings then stated and shown to be Nigh-Omnipotent cant create a omnipotent being this proves the fan served “Kami Tenchi” ISNT a true omnipotent being just a mid tier nigh-omnipotent where the creators are Low tier.

      A technicality, but an important one. Lupin, by definition (courtesy of a five-second Google search), “omnipotent” means all powerful: if there is anything beyond the Chousins’ scope–which they explicitly say there is via “Kami” Tenchi–then they are not omnipotent. They are very, very powerful, but their designation falls down to semantics. Familiar with the old paradoxical exercise “What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?” The answer, logically, would be you have one or the other: if an “unstoppable” force is stopped, it’s not unstoppable; if an “immovable” object moves, it’s not actually immovable; if an “omnipotent” being cannot do something, they’re not actually omnipotent after all.

      ChaudSept
      Member

      Lupin879 wrote:

      The interview is clear kami Tenchi is tenchi masaki

      This is an interview of the Author no fan

      Nope, here look at that :

      Quote:

      This is a summary of what was revealed in the Kajishima-sensei interview: Much of the OAV is going to consist of the “Choushin Contest,” some sort of contest between Tsunami, Washu, and their sister, the mysterious Tokimi-sama. A new character named “Z” will be introduced. “Z” is a servant of Tokimi-sama’s and will have to fight Tenchi.

      http://tenchi.astronerdboy.com/tmr_ova3_ova3-1/ )

      Even though I support that Tenchi is the a god, it is just a theory.

      It is probably true that Glowing Tenchi = Tenchi though.

      Edit : 22/05/15 : sorry, i Bumped by mistake. Didnt know what it was…

      Beyonder
      Member
      tenchi.astronerdboy i have read so many contradictions on his site that its not even funny……

      so we agree Kami tenchi isnt Omnipotent due to the contradictions/paradoxes?

      badass1

      jgzinv
      Member
      OVA tenchi might as well be until they give him some flaws.

      He’s already boned all the major powers in the universe and had half a dozen inbred offspring so…

      Yeah back to universe.

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